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* Re: delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions)
@ 2018-09-08  3:49 Bingo
  2018-09-08  7:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
  2018-09-11  4:22 ` Richard Stallman
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Bingo @ 2018-09-08  3:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

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Hi,
  Can we consider changing defaults only for users who don't have any init file at all ?

  This change may not solve many problems, due to two other features of emacs : 

1. Emacs undo is frustrating for most new users. Correcting mistakes with delete-selection-mode i.e. restore a selection that was deleted due to a mistaken delete by typing/pasting , will need them to use undo. 

2. In their attempt to play with undo/redo, they might do C-y. Which pastes in Emacs : but it is the key for redo in many "modern" editors. This can cause more unintended deletions in delete-selection-mode.

Thanks

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread
* Re: delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions)
@ 2018-09-08  3:46 Bingo
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Bingo @ 2018-09-08  3:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 612 bytes --]

Hi,
  Can we consider changing defaults only for users who don't have any init file at all ?

  This change may not solve many problems, due to two other features of emacs : 

1. Emacs undo is frustrating for most new users. Correcting mistakes with delete-selection-mode i.e. restore a selection that was deleted due to a mistaken delete by typing/pasting , will need them to use undo. 

2. In their attempt to play with undo/redo, they might do C-y. Which pastes in Emacs : but it is the key for redo in many "modern" editors. This can cause more unintended deletions in delete-selection-mode.

Thanks

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread
* Re: delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions)
@ 2018-09-07  0:32 Noam Postavsky
  2018-09-07  0:35 ` Drew Adams
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Noam Postavsky @ 2018-09-07  0:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Drew Adams; +Cc: hw, Eli Zaretskii, Phillip Lord, spacibba, Emacs developers

>> > > > we should turn on `delete-selection-mode' by default.
>> > >
>> > > I don't think we can, because it gets in the way when editing code.
>> >
>> > How so? It doesn't get in my way. Quite the contrary - I appreciate
>> > it for editing code. Please give a recipe
>>
>> Type "C-x C-x", then some letter: puff! the whole region is gone.
>> This could be okay in text modes, but in code buffers users generally
>> don't replace regions with single letters.

I don't understand why a user who is okay with replacing the region
with a single letter in text mode, would all of sudden dislike the
idea in a code buffer.
Or, conversely, why a user who dislikes replacing the region with a
single letter in code buffers, would suddenly be happly about it in a
text buffer.

> It's equivalent to your doing this without `delete-selection-mode':
> C-x C-x M-w, then some letter

I guess you meant C-w there.

> I see zero difference between editing code and editing plain prose,
> in this regard. In both cases the selection can be replaced by typing,

As mentioned above, I agree with this.

> and that's a plus, not a minus.

Maybe. My feeling from using non-Emacs editors (gasp!), is that the
main use of this sort of thing is rather for replacing the selection
by pasting, not so about much typing. Or, for when some feature
inserts some default text, it highlights that text, indicating to the
user that they may replace it by typing (i.e., it's rare that a
user-created selection is deleted by typing).



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2018-10-20 18:33 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 78+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2018-09-08  3:49 delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Bingo
2018-09-08  7:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-08  8:33   ` Bingo
2018-09-08  9:26     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-09 13:13       ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-09 14:53         ` Drew Adams
2018-09-09 15:12         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-09 17:59         ` Ergus
2018-09-09 19:12           ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-09 22:33             ` Ergus
2018-09-09 23:34               ` Drew Adams
2018-09-11  4:22 ` Richard Stallman
2018-10-14 16:07   ` Emacs undo behavior frustrating for new users. (WAS: delete-selection-mode as default) Karl Fogel
2018-10-14 18:42     ` Emacs undo behavior frustrating for new users Stefan Monnier
2018-10-15  4:59       ` Karl Fogel
2018-10-15  6:11         ` Noel Taylor
2018-10-15  5:43     ` Emacs undo behavior frustrating for new users. (WAS: delete-selection-mode as default) Richard Stallman
2018-10-15  7:28       ` Van L
2018-10-16  6:44         ` Richard Stallman
2018-10-17 10:09           ` Nathan Moreau
2018-10-17 10:38             ` Emacs undo behavior frustrating for new users Andreas Schwab
2018-10-18  7:23               ` Richard Stallman
2018-10-17 12:00             ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-17 14:05               ` Nathan Moreau
2018-10-17 14:20                 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-17 14:33               ` Yuri Khan
2018-10-17 16:06                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-18  7:23                 ` Richard Stallman
2018-10-15  8:26       ` Emacs undo behavior frustrating for new users. (WAS: delete-selection-mode as default) Yuri Khan
2018-10-16  6:44         ` Richard Stallman
2018-10-16  7:22           ` Yuri Khan
2018-10-17  7:05             ` Richard Stallman
2018-10-20  8:15           ` Marcin Borkowski
2018-10-20 18:33             ` Elias Mårtenson
2018-10-15  7:54     ` Joost Kremers
2018-10-15  9:27       ` Joost Kremers
2018-10-15 12:01       ` Emacs undo behavior frustrating for new users Óscar Fuentes
2018-10-15 13:28         ` Joost Kremers
2018-10-16 12:27           ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-17  7:05             ` Richard Stallman
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2018-09-08  3:46 delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Bingo
2018-09-07  0:32 Noam Postavsky
2018-09-07  0:35 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-07  6:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-07  9:40   ` Phil Sainty
2018-09-07 13:41     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-08 11:37       ` Phil Sainty
2018-09-08 14:04         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-07 15:35     ` Drew Adams
2018-09-07 16:16       ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-07 19:01   ` tomas
2018-09-07 19:23     ` Drew Adams
2018-09-07 20:28       ` tomas
2018-09-07 20:33     ` Noam Postavsky
2018-09-07 21:31       ` tomas
2018-09-09 13:45   ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-09 14:22     ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-09-09 15:12     ` Drew Adams
2018-09-09 20:39   ` Joost Kremers
2018-09-09 22:24     ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10  3:08       ` Phil Sainty
2018-09-10  3:17         ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10  5:15       ` Bingo
2018-09-10 18:16       ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-10 18:35         ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-09-10 19:19           ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-10 20:36         ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10  7:05     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-11  4:22       ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-11  7:48         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-12  0:33           ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-11  8:08         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-12  0:33           ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-12 14:07             ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-08  5:13 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-08 14:54   ` Drew Adams
2018-09-09  1:23     ` Ergus
2018-09-08 17:25   ` Clément Pit-Claudel

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