From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Joost Kremers <joostkremers@fastmail.fm>
Cc: hw@adminart.net, spacibba@aol.com, npostavs@gmail.com,
emacs-devel@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com,
phillip.lord@russet.org.uk
Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 10:05:53 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83o9d5q1bi.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm> (message from Joost Kremers on Sun, 09 Sep 2018 22:39:54 +0200)
> From: Joost Kremers <joostkremers@fastmail.fm>
> Cc: Noam Postavsky <npostavs@gmail.com>, hw@adminart.net, spacibba@aol.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2018 22:39:54 +0200
>
> what `delete-selection-mode` does is standard behaviour in most
> software out there and most new users will take it for granted
The _only_ problem I personally have with delete-selection-mode is
that it also replaces the region created by the likes of "C-x C-x",
something that "most software out there" does not and cannot do. If
we were to change delete-selection-mode to replace only highlighted
text created by mouse selections or by shift-selections, I think we
could then enable it by default without much resistance, because
typing a character or DEL after explicitly selecting text is many
orders of magnitude less probable to be a mistake than when we make
the region active by other means.
I suspect that making the above happen would need to introduce a
special kind of region, though. But if we want to present a UI and
provide a UX similar to other editors, I don't see any other way. I
think the conclusion from the transient-mark-mode experiment is that
it is not up to the job we hoped it will do, due to conflicting
requirements that cannot be reconciled by reasonably reliable
heuristics. The traditional Emacs region cannot support
delete-selection-mode and its traditional uses at the same time.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-09-10 7:05 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 258+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-09-07 0:32 delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Noam Postavsky
2018-09-07 0:35 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-07 6:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-07 9:18 ` delete-selection-mode as default hw
2018-09-07 13:16 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-09-07 13:28 ` Robert Pluim
2018-09-07 13:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2018-09-07 13:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-07 14:16 ` Robert Pluim
2018-09-07 16:02 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-07 17:08 ` Robert Pluim
2018-09-07 20:28 ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2018-09-07 14:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-09-08 23:11 ` Juri Linkov
2018-09-09 5:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-09 16:16 ` Juri Linkov
2018-09-09 14:22 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-16 23:34 ` Juri Linkov
2018-09-17 0:36 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-17 22:37 ` Juri Linkov
2018-09-17 23:12 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-17 23:21 ` Juri Linkov
2018-09-17 23:36 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-19 6:53 ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2018-09-19 22:44 ` Juri Linkov
2018-09-07 14:39 ` hw
2018-09-07 16:27 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-08 17:37 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-09-09 5:15 ` hw
2018-09-08 5:14 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-08 11:32 ` Elias Mårtenson
2018-09-08 14:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-08 15:52 ` hw
2018-09-08 19:31 ` Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-09 3:19 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-09 6:08 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-09 14:48 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10 11:50 ` hw
2018-09-11 4:25 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-10 7:52 ` hw
2018-09-10 11:52 ` visual-region-mode? (was: delete-selection-mode as default) hw
2018-09-10 20:02 ` Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-11 5:43 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-11 18:25 ` Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-12 5:12 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-12 6:59 ` visual-region-mode? Andreas Schwab
2018-09-12 7:12 ` visual-region-mode? Yuri Khan
2018-09-12 7:44 ` visual-region-mode? Andreas Schwab
2018-09-12 18:31 ` visual-region-mode? (was: delete-selection-mode as default) Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-16 22:55 ` visual-region-mode? Juri Linkov
2018-09-11 21:56 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-12 19:47 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-12 20:40 ` visual-region-mode? Drew Adams
2018-09-12 20:50 ` visual-region-mode? Juri Linkov
2018-09-13 4:01 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-13 4:00 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-13 17:22 ` visual-region-mode? Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-13 20:08 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-13 20:42 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-15 19:21 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-16 19:31 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-17 20:36 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-17 22:24 ` visual-region-mode? Drew Adams
2018-09-17 23:11 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-18 0:11 ` visual-region-mode? Juri Linkov
2018-09-18 12:32 ` visual-region-mode? Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-18 19:22 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-19 1:45 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-19 19:22 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-19 20:04 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-20 18:14 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-21 20:28 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-24 17:42 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-24 18:07 ` visual-region-mode? Yuri Khan
2018-09-29 11:18 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-10-03 13:13 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-10-04 20:20 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-26 22:00 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-27 21:01 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-10-03 13:59 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-24 20:24 ` visual-region-mode? Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-26 18:12 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-26 22:45 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-27 17:26 ` visual-region-mode? Alan Mackenzie
2018-10-03 15:43 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-10-03 17:03 ` visual-region-mode? Alan Mackenzie
[not found] ` <<m2ftxy3i79.fsf@aurox.ch>
2018-09-24 20:39 ` visual-region-mode? Drew Adams
2018-09-12 20:27 ` visual-region-mode? Juri Linkov
2018-09-08 18:16 ` delete-selection-mode as default Dmitry Gutov
2018-09-09 7:42 ` Elias Mårtenson
2018-09-09 14:25 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-09-07 9:40 ` delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Phil Sainty
2018-09-07 13:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-08 11:37 ` Phil Sainty
2018-09-08 14:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-07 15:35 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-07 16:16 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-07 19:01 ` tomas
2018-09-07 19:23 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-07 20:28 ` tomas
2018-09-08 23:19 ` delete-selection-mode as default Juri Linkov
2018-09-09 8:02 ` tomas
2018-09-07 20:33 ` delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Noam Postavsky
2018-09-07 21:31 ` tomas
2018-09-10 8:01 ` delete-selection-mode as default Robert Pluim
2018-09-10 8:09 ` tomas
2018-09-09 13:45 ` delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-09 14:22 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-09-09 15:12 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10 11:42 ` delete-selection-mode as default Filipp Gunbin
2018-09-09 20:39 ` delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Joost Kremers
2018-09-09 22:24 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10 3:08 ` Phil Sainty
2018-09-10 3:17 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10 5:15 ` Bingo
2018-09-10 13:34 ` delete-selection-mode as default Stefan Monnier
2018-09-10 8:46 ` hw
2018-09-10 18:16 ` delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-10 18:35 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-09-10 19:19 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-10 20:36 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-11 22:34 ` delete-selection-mode as default hw
2018-09-12 0:04 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-13 2:58 ` hw
2018-09-12 13:16 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-12 13:41 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-12 14:53 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-12 15:51 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-12 15:59 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-12 16:36 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-13 3:59 ` Elias Mårtenson
2018-09-13 4:16 ` hw
2018-09-13 17:46 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-13 20:32 ` hw
2018-09-14 10:48 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-14 13:41 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-14 14:03 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-14 15:37 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-14 14:29 ` Phil Sainty
2018-09-14 14:32 ` Phil Sainty
2018-09-14 14:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-14 15:23 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-14 18:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-15 21:20 ` hw
2018-09-15 22:37 ` hw
2018-09-16 0:22 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-16 3:15 ` hw
2018-09-16 3:34 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-16 13:48 ` hw
2018-09-16 14:14 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-17 21:00 ` hw
2018-09-16 15:28 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-16 16:30 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-16 16:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-16 18:20 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-16 18:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-16 20:17 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-17 21:22 ` hw
2018-09-18 12:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-18 23:45 ` hw
2018-09-19 5:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-19 20:09 ` hw
[not found] ` <<831s9tidjc.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-16 18:04 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-16 18:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<83va75gvc8.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-16 20:14 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <<CAP_d_8VcFjkQQxzgv+XUheE4Q33vNgbuGpGwtv2-dOEBuK7OeQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<83tvmpgtwe.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-16 20:29 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-17 5:28 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-16 8:06 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-16 13:36 ` hw
2018-09-16 16:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-17 22:11 ` hw
2018-09-17 22:44 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-17 23:30 ` hw
2018-09-18 12:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-18 13:14 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-18 14:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-18 15:28 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-18 15:37 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-18 16:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-18 16:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-20 1:46 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-20 5:45 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-19 2:26 ` hw
2018-09-19 6:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-19 20:36 ` hw
[not found] ` <<874leq799e.fsf@toy.adminart.net>
[not found] ` <<205df9be-2e5c-4cc4-a13a-7c80eb63bedc@default>
[not found] ` <<87in363zgq.fsf@toy.adminart.net>
[not found] ` <<aedad52c-aaf1-414d-bc8c-8e7d0284f4c8@default>
[not found] ` <<835zz5ie17.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<87musg0wyf.fsf@toy.adminart.net>
[not found] ` <<83va73f0mv.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<CAP_d_8WFoHecEv-krQmAP0fWVSYXDLWuwdKfXwpcLbkJYYfWJQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<83musegaf2.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<CAP_d_8VH38kAdG3QZ4EiM_3-S+PVFg=7QyxZP6pZG_mc3Qct5w@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<3f242636-6fa4-4e36-a37b-86f1d7088aae@default>
[not found] ` <<83h8img39b.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-18 17:42 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-18 18:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-18 19:15 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-14 15:15 ` Elias Mårtenson
2018-09-14 14:33 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-15 21:59 ` hw
2018-09-15 20:31 ` hw
2018-09-11 23:30 ` Juri Linkov
2018-09-12 0:13 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10 7:05 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2018-09-10 13:41 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-09-10 14:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-10 14:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-09-10 14:24 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <<83tvmxo3iy.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-10 14:30 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10 14:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-10 16:09 ` Yuri Khan
[not found] ` <<<83tvmxo3iy.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<c7872ab4-8a1b-43bc-aeb4-2d08bc899857@default>
[not found] ` <<83muspo12f.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-10 15:25 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-11 4:22 ` delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Richard Stallman
2018-09-11 7:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-12 0:33 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-11 8:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-12 0:33 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-12 14:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-11 12:36 ` delete-selection-mode as default Stefan Monnier
2018-09-11 23:09 ` hw
2018-09-12 0:33 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-12 13:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-09-13 3:33 ` Richard Stallman
[not found] ` <<87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm>
[not found] ` <<770f48a8-664a-40ae-8e03-19f6aad248b6@default>
[not found] ` <<20180910181615.GA4829@ACM>
[not found] ` <<ab70ed3e-96a7-446f-be9b-e02130e71927@default>
[not found] ` <<874lev3bq4.fsf@toy.adminart.net>
[not found] ` <<20180912131602.GA5582@ACM>
[not found] ` <<87d0tihxzw.fsf@toy.adminart.net>
[not found] ` <<20180913174640.GB4019@ACM>
[not found] ` <<8736udkuit.fsf@toy.adminart.net>
[not found] ` <<20180914104833.GA4103@ACM>
[not found] ` <<CAP_d_8WpO9+w-W1ZXMyoucUNtofNQ3Bc6Gchmxj6Rgy1nm3FOA@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<83k1nojgia.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<7bed1f76-5bae-44cb-9b22-206b513043be@default>
[not found] ` <<83d0tfkj77.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-14 20:57 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-15 7:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-15 10:20 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-15 10:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-15 19:44 ` Ergus
2018-09-15 20:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-16 0:29 ` Ergus
2018-09-16 16:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-16 10:52 ` Alan Mackenzie
[not found] ` <3D72B095-01EC-4E7D-90F9-5691AEFE16DC@aol.com>
2018-09-17 2:17 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-17 5:46 ` Elias Mårtenson
2018-09-17 18:37 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-17 19:57 ` hw
2018-09-17 22:56 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-15 15:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-09-15 15:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-15 18:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-09-15 20:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-16 3:14 ` Richard Stallman
[not found] ` <<83zhwji4hx.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-17 0:55 ` Drew Adams
2018-10-03 0:22 ` Richard Stallman
2018-10-03 17:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-08 5:13 ` delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Richard Stallman
2018-09-08 14:54 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-09 1:23 ` Ergus
2018-09-08 17:25 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-09-08 18:08 ` delete-selection-mode as default Stefan Monnier
2018-09-09 6:08 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-09 7:56 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-09 14:33 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10 5:47 ` Richard Stallman
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2018-09-08 3:46 delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Bingo
2018-09-08 3:49 Bingo
2018-09-08 7:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-08 8:33 ` Bingo
2018-09-08 9:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-09 13:13 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-09 14:53 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-09 15:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-09 17:59 ` Ergus
2018-09-09 19:12 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-09 22:33 ` Ergus
2018-09-09 23:34 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-11 4:22 ` Richard Stallman
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