From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2018 15:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <770f48a8-664a-40ae-8e03-19f6aad248b6@default> References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536532675 24566 195.159.176.226 (9 Sep 2018 22:37:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2018 22:37:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: hw@adminart.net, spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Noam Postavsky , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: Joost Kremers , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 10 00:37:50 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fz8Kz-0006Ir-Jf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 00:37:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48931 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fz8N6-0006c7-5D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Sep 2018 18:40:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44422) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fz8Mo-0006K4-OF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Sep 2018 18:39:47 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fz88R-0000oo-Li for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Sep 2018 18:24:52 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:35700) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fz88M-0000lJ-2Y; Sun, 09 Sep 2018 18:24:46 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w89MJqEF027744; Sun, 9 Sep 2018 22:24:35 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=arygZKUsyCXGFWbDmPIWryLdfmmNTEkHFhbT8xBdu0I=; b=L89EvyBWvh2Flyj6XECjsOj3bZ1DgqiaSH0DRXYIGOqOnhxRqZycZSVT8zCAaGHx/W5Y FEBEldXQIdR+tYHGt3LmBx3cc5kFqj3aa+LTxOOEBP+9aoQP/MX8ctQvWq10SjkkbC1v pKvIUJnOg88ygAIYXRH+GuFMUEZjmvLDeeNWFJ1U+g4RjdAenvalPbiYGerrsZYa/Q+m yd+h41WWbZmAf8ceLf4OVSO43nXaoCMnL+jYALvEMDK4aJyjSJXRNXdLKMiBhLdQV79C wfbCgyNw5HjGVZRkmc08FGPRRgK0NAiF/fub7pbQPX/SswzMfTtKKj5pcmufIHuJ5Sn/ UQ== Original-Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2mc5ut31kw-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 09 Sep 2018 22:24:35 +0000 Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w89MOYwe002502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 9 Sep 2018 22:24:34 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w89MOV0b027298; Sun, 9 Sep 2018 22:24:32 GMT In-Reply-To: <87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4735.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9011 signatures=668708 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1809090244 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.86 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229577 Archived-At: I agree that a poll of this list is not a great guide (for this question and many others). > Two questions should be considered: a) "Would leaving it off scare > away potential new users?" and b) "Would turning it on obscure an > option that is potentially useful to at least a subset of new users?" I must have missed what that potentially useful option is. > On the other hand, if `delete-selection-mode` is on by default, > most, if not all, new users will never even consider the > possibility that Emacs has the option to disable it and that > that might actually fit their workflow better. This too hints at some advantage to having it off. The only argument I saw here (unless I've forgotten already) in favor of it being off (by default or not) is that when it is on a user (new or old) can too easily accidentally delete text. (Some added "irretrievably", but I haven't seen that claim supported yet.) That advantage would seem to be something that would most benefit new users, no? But the claim has been that new users are more used to the on, not the off, behavior. So again, what's the advantage to it being off? (It's not a rhetorical question.) Is there really some useful "option" that its being off offers? Does that give you additional choice or control?