From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs undo behavior frustrating for new users. Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 21:33:49 +0700 Message-ID: References: <0CCFABF4-0F2B-4DAA-9C8E-11E1254A325E@gmail.com> <87woqka4wg.fsf_-_@red-bean.com> <53AEC704-1099-42F4-806C-6C0A903AB954@scratch.space> <8736t4g4v2.fsf@portable.galex-713.eu> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1539786728 22712 195.159.176.226 (17 Oct 2018 14:32:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 14:32:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: van@scratch.space, nathan.moreau@m4x.org, rms@gnu.org, Emacs developers To: galex-713@galex-713.eu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 17 16:32:03 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gCmri-0005na-2k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 16:32:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37014 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gCmto-0008Ks-GM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 10:34:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52649) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gCmtg-0008Kl-5J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 10:34:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gCmtf-0005YU-CM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 10:34:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ot1-x32c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::32c]:38062) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gCmte-0005WR-6Y; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 10:34:02 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ot1-x32c.google.com with SMTP id l1so26367748otj.5; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 07:34:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KrFlkMFzLNNwnzkXvS1unRVDLIJXMLy65Kc9LttCzV0=; b=GLRXVgPLGxGmxBaIfYrAgZjcx9NDKji1fplp4+mEclINLkwBZpQN3Q+6mYEbeAoz69 3nCaSYzxleJlsl2B4Mw5WrtYn1fnl/F/UCtAOJ7iyjqLGOT11SdwwQ+LeeCZnS61/Ljg +M7HjLWSzcFpoPqKyAQm5gkfjYgZzo95+vPEVQKBo/Z35IdZq1Xd042Qdtc4NhGA+nBl gLmIH3PyJaWKw3oG+O3w28aTFFJqMuSkgAap2lV2oOqvpbEYA3+ZGyaAw0GQI6D8EfY5 EaE4tfrLa+1B7sVEttCT4RpY4VDLp9ysUlMEZnqhgCWGYdMEgzmmBmhIarvS6FWUqvEy dwJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KrFlkMFzLNNwnzkXvS1unRVDLIJXMLy65Kc9LttCzV0=; b=g+mk6R+6+kJfB3BWmCP5CtUNyqDcusPgbFppK7tWI30zepPibHWGDaUoQ1jUsFBEeu G3N+rTQLhdd2PKwt3xOdux39JBzBe+sCxuB/fE9uH2XDxRe611YQmxRFpcnfXUBmCTjU ziECkWKMGgH/SPz8PEX+7MZdEGcMKmrkdQQVC5ccm5g9OiF58XQ0mcG2Tib5KIg+iKgg Ki/kre+3Ps7pWaq0avSJi36C26WDxyfKe1qpkOrzxltHtnP1u0Ngm/WGM6Wspf/1kGog F/4CknbBV1+he+2hHl2sulOKKeK87+w3G/tTrjmNdsNgvyGWhhPL/Kr6hRtEsrPJTc5d Ld1g== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfogdHuN2EWi6ceX/DO6D+/QxvduOeYoB1zJWK7WyS6nC6G/4rT3Y jE7ilr+dr/m6hhtiSqhTGXimkroH+aEsw4+ofkc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV612uaIztXAgj2g6XaGuaAc1DWAqFZ/giUcNcfgRQd3ubhLwcDd4Y+Yek4KHF8XLLMQgroAm0pvtVQf3B7oc1Fg= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:49ac:: with SMTP id g44mr17822803otf.198.1539786841560; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 07:34:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8736t4g4v2.fsf@portable.galex-713.eu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::32c X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:230448 Archived-At: On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 7:01 PM Garreau, Alexandre wrote: > In qwerty and dvorak: S-/ is ?, so C-S-/ is C-?, which is impossible to > type (it gives ? usually), while corresponding to DEL under a terminal. In the age of hardware terminals, it might have been reasonable that the Control key only lets you enter the 33 control characters. These days? Control and Alt are just modifier keys that can be pressed with every other key, whether alphabetic, numeric, or functional. Today=E2=80=99s terminal emulators should learn to pass these to applicatio= ns faithfully. Somebody has even invented an encoding scheme to be able to represent keys with modifiers: https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/protocol-extensions.html#keyboard-handling