From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Noel Taylor Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs undo behavior frustrating for new users. Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 01:11:08 -0500 Message-ID: References: <0CCFABF4-0F2B-4DAA-9C8E-11E1254A325E@gmail.com> <87woqka4wg.fsf_-_@red-bean.com> <874ldnajq7.fsf@red-bean.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1539598214 2455 195.159.176.226 (15 Oct 2018 10:10:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 10:10:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Karl Fogel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 15 12:10:10 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gBzpB-0000X9-VC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 12:10:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51473 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gBzrI-0007XI-DB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:12:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40218) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gBw6D-0006UQ-V7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 02:11:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gBw6A-0002Oh-R9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 02:11:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-it1-x12e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::12e]:38119) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gBw6A-0002OA-LU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 02:11:26 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-it1-x12e.google.com with SMTP id i76-v6so26082705ita.3 for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 23:11:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=8wbX0YqVwEQfzZmzdr9+IupUNumWJIHt3rjyuu84BlE=; b=ByF8e12MnW06c+BU/AwUckJkeUKkmuSS+ETdgIMKiVMvsKdgx6tjcz8cv5Zerjzboi ScmHIxFZ+UJ9NzENGTIb9Qd/mujpI4DeQ4KkoautSW/+7mKOh1EpLvBhZsJE1CFChd05 O6EDVvdFNXPWFSVKbbXD4/J10nUKeIcSM0vyORbzt7Cs5yZ6JJJAZddN6P4NlqfBvUFv SQC1ZpbOeYPF8yAoD0TGezvkL75IhmijfCdmK5UEA/VZo4HRc63/NoYU5IwyrLN7ZCNf QXsdBw9dyHG+399aRKFa6NZqz1cUK4NHzcqcct7NgxjhXfuUxHM3sleIH2dpHa2/S0Nz f2UA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=8wbX0YqVwEQfzZmzdr9+IupUNumWJIHt3rjyuu84BlE=; b=UIkHByc9YhXLbPiaTVG4575bjzz9xkeHfEw7Bd//OYDP+IiJlOrk6p4i11RzdCGDhR KrhB0SBzlmOAqBj0aJFkJRlmxeznuS73LabVm1bwrphO5KWb9eELRzefeYaYmp5bbxwK yVcqGRcwHo7pAu5au4fOZtoB7wa+m87Yi1E5M0iBtvhFxKlg/w+6CDlP3o/oldNHv6FZ P+ZeIAwvZW+qqu9RVrKSxXlQFQUYEcJMuN90oU/D7dnAsEafWbEaY68Tdd7l8dYPHzR2 1K9WWOr5uY6K9OWhNGiVsNaojN25qHukHXBmu0x+EuNQlpADaskMHC0IuEgT01JxDqRC O4Lw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfogRFRGJo2p2E2p1MrlB7WwbyAJ6o1jcqSAARKjvG1ev9wImNSnx nBFwYTmMverimDod4tRq0CRLWqTR X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61CCx4S7pTqrN5/h7pFEpLoOOBMhmhtRVRfkpGOiSYEVIBdzdIR8Ores2+yB7CM3MBYstxj9g== X-Received: by 2002:a02:b14a:: with SMTP id s10-v6mr13181551jah.38.1539583885664; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 23:11:25 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] ([104.244.243.25]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r8-v6sm2842212iop.20.2018.10.14.23.11.24 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 14 Oct 2018 23:11:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14G60) In-Reply-To: <874ldnajq7.fsf@red-bean.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::12e X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:11:47 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:230399 Archived-At: > On Oct 14, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Karl Fogel wrote: >=20 > Noel, want to try binding `undo-only' to replace your normal `undo` keybin= dings and see if that provides a behavior that seems more natural to you? Haha not really at this point. I would have loved to in my first few months o= f using emacs, but by now I don't think it will feel any more natural to me n= ow than it would to you.=20 > (And see how much you miss not having `undo-redo'... That probably wouldn'= t be very hard to implement, but I'm conspicuously not volunteering until we= have a sense of how badly it would be missed by someone who is accustomed t= o having it.) Ah but I'm long past being accustomed to having it now. If I tried to do my j= ob using the MS Word style undo I'm sure that for me personally - it would b= e more a hindrance than a help. Such a change could well be useful to new em= acs users, but I'm no longer one of those. But I'm still very glad to learn that "undo-only" exists! Thank you, Stefan f= or pointing that out. And I will try it out at some point - probably not whe= n I'm using emacs for work though.=20 N