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* Re: Re: Make all tree-sitter modes optional
@ 2023-01-19 16:53 Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
  2023-01-20  8:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 119+ messages in thread
From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez @ 2023-01-19 16:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

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Hi

Disclaimer: no intention to start a flame war, please...

Now: My experience in the last couple of weeks is that there are
tree-sitter modes in the Emacs tree that have non-ts counterparts in MELPA
only. And that's been frustrating. Basically because I don't compile ts
support and despite that, the treesit .el files are installed and used.
Example: dockerfile-mode is in MELPA only. So when I recently opened a
Dockerfile, I got an error saying that Dockerfile-ts-mode couldn't start
because my emacs hasn't ts support compiled in.

I would have prefered to see the dockerfile opened in text mode with no
errors. And then, when I install the Dockerfile-mode package from MELPA,
start working with all the goodies I got from installing the package from
MELPA.

My gut feeling is that if I don't have treesit support compiled in Emacs, I
don't want *-ts-*.el files in my elisp tree nor any side effects related to
these files. Sorry to say, but I feel that the enthusiasm about treesit
some have is a bit pushing for me. And I feel uncomfortable when pushed.

Thanks, /PA
-- 
Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

Headaches with a Juju log:
unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should run
a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 119+ messages in thread
* Re: Make all tree-sitter modes optional
@ 2023-02-18  7:55 Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
  2023-03-11 12:45 ` Ongaro
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 119+ messages in thread
From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez @ 2023-02-18  7:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 14:05:34 -0800
From: Yuan Fu <casouri@gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>, Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net>, Stefan
        Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, Lars Ingebrigtsen
        <larsi@gnus.org>, Theodor Thornhill <theo@thornhill.no>, Jostein
        Kjønigsen <jostein@secure.kjonigsen.net>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Make all tree-sitter modes optional
Message-ID: <D3655A05-FA31-4B08-BAA5-42EC51F5F6F2@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8


On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 14:05:34 Yuan Fu <casouri@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 15, 2023, at 11:27 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 20:31:46 +0000
>> Cc: juri@linkov.net, casouri@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca,
>>  larsi@gnus.org, theo@thornhill.no, jostein@secure.kjonigsen.net,
>>  emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
>>
>> But you've got to allow me to have mixed feelings when the project I've
>> put so much into over ~20 years is facing redundancy.
>>
>> It isn't facing redundancy, it's nowhere near that.  You don't need to
>> worry about that.  I expect a significant proportion of users to wish
>> to stay with CC Mode, for several good reasons:
>>
>> . the use cases it handles better that c-ts-mode (cpp stuff etc.)
>> . the plethora of minor conveniences it offers that c-ts-mode
>>   doesn't, at least not yet, such as much more elaborate
>>   customizations of indentation and electric behavior
>>
>> I'm not even sure yet whether I myself will switch.  I will give the
>> c-ts-mode a lot of leeway and credit, but I don't know yet what will
>> be the outcome.

>+1. It’ll be a long way until c-ts-mode can be comparable to c-mode.

>Yuan

+1 here too. With some additional comments. If memory serves, Eli asked for
"user" feedback. Here you are ;-)

I'm using Emacs on different Linuxes, macOS and Windows. With the exception
of Windows, I'm on master for my day-to-day work, which gives credit to the
work behind it :-)

I use it for programming (mainly shell, Python and YAML, including eglot
for Python and the 2-3 golang lines I write) both locally and remotely
(that implies TRAMP), documenting and producing slides (LaTEX and
org-mode). On top of that, I have company-mode activated.

On Linux, I have native-compilation, but not on macOS; probably because I
didn't have the time when I started using it. Now, because in my setup I
scarcely notice the difference, I have lost interest and I'm even thinking
of reverting and disabling native-compilation... I'll tell you in a couple
of months...

Now, have I tried tree-sitter? Yes... I got it running on Linux. But the
fuzz was not worth the gain. I saw from second one what yansippets, tramp,
eglot (you name it) was offering and I decided to go for it (BTW, I'm so
happy that eglot is is part of Emacs now). I don't see it in tree-sitter.

so, I know this is not exactly FOSS compliant, but it is part of the
experience that may shy away users outside FOSS operating systems:

In non-free operating systems, it is getting more difficult to get compiled
third-party libraries downloaded and running. So, I don't anticipate it
will easy with the tree-sitter DLLs or DYLIBs if you get them from the
outside world. This means that you will need to compile them on your system
to work with them. And that will be yet another argument for sys-admins to
ban Emacs from the "professional" programming environment. And I think
that's really sad...

My .2 cents, /PA

PS: I'd rather see yasnippets moving into Emacs... IMvHO that's part of a
*nice* user-experience that makes Emacs appealing :-)
-- 
Fragen sind nicht da, um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

Headaches with a Juju log:
unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should run
a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 119+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2023-03-11 12:45 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 119+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
     [not found] <84973.1672843723@hassadar.pretzelnet.org>
     [not found] ` <83wn62xi3k.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]   ` <m1cz7u5brr.fsf@yahoo.es>
     [not found]     ` <83o7rexe2n.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]       ` <83h6x5xym7.fsf@gnu.org>
2023-01-15 14:01         ` Make all tree-sitter modes optional Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-15 23:39           ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-16  7:43             ` Theodor Thornhill
2023-01-16 16:30               ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-16 12:34             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-16 13:06               ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-16 14:20                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-16 14:50                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-16 14:59                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 12:59                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 13:47                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 14:32                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 14:52                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 15:22                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 17:02                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 17:10                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 17:38                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 17:59                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 18:04                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 18:21                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 18:40                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 18:49                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 19:03                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 19:21                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-18  1:11                                                     ` Yuan Fu
2023-01-18  1:23                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-18  3:34                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-18  3:52                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-18 12:06                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-18 14:00                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-18 14:51                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-18 12:36                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2023-01-17 17:34                             ` treesit-forward-sexp (was: Make all tree-sitter modes optional) Juri Linkov
2023-01-17 17:40                               ` Theodor Thornhill
2023-01-17 18:17                                 ` treesit-forward-sexp Juri Linkov
2023-01-17 17:50                               ` treesit-forward-sexp (was: Make all tree-sitter modes optional) Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 17:59                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-16  1:12           ` Make all tree-sitter modes optional Po Lu
2023-01-17 17:30           ` Juri Linkov
2023-01-17 17:58             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 18:19               ` Juri Linkov
2023-01-17 18:41                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-14 19:08               ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-14 19:29                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-14 21:02                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-15 15:35                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-15 17:57                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-15 18:33                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-15 20:31                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-16  5:41                             ` tomas
2023-02-16  7:27                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16 22:05                               ` Yuan Fu
     [not found]                           ` <87v8k2g04m.fsf@dick>
2023-02-15 20:34                             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                               ` <87mt5eegkw.fsf@dick>
2023-02-16  7:53                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16  8:52                                   ` Po Lu
2023-02-15 21:40                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-17 13:30                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-17 13:37                             ` Po Lu
2023-02-17 13:46                               ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-17 14:16                                 ` Po Lu
2023-02-17 14:40                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-17 14:56                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-17 15:04                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                         ` <8735741fic.fsf@dick>
2023-02-17 15:41                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-17 16:04                                       ` Make all tree-sitter modes optional Stefan Kangas
2023-02-17 17:42                                         ` Morgan Willcock
2023-02-17 15:15                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2023-02-17 13:54                               ` Alan Mackenzie
     [not found]                               ` <d4c1a7f6-b5bf-f4f3-8d79-1c6b1d07cf70@yandex.ru>
2023-02-17 14:22                                 ` Po Lu
2023-02-17 14:58                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-17 15:18                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-15 18:34                         ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-15 19:01                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-15 19:26                             ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-15 19:47                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-15 19:53                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-15 20:06                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-15 21:04                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-16  7:42                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16  9:49                                         ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2023-02-16 11:48                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16 14:41                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-16 15:42                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16 16:45                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-16 17:05                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16 19:14                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-16 20:07                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-16  5:45                                     ` tomas
2023-02-16  8:26                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16 10:30                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-16 12:38                                           ` Po Lu
2023-02-16 12:53                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-15 20:24                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-16  7:05                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16  7:53                                   ` Theodor Thornhill
2023-02-16  8:34                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16  8:46                                       ` Theodor Thornhill
2023-02-16 11:58                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-16 11:56                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-16 14:48                                       ` Theodor Thornhill via Emacs development discussions.
2023-02-16 14:56                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-16 15:15                                           ` Theodor Thornhill
2023-02-15 23:48                               ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-02-16  2:56                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-15 19:07                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-15 19:27                             ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-15 21:06                             ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2023-02-16  7:44                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-15 18:25                 ` Juri Linkov
2023-01-19 16:53 Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
2023-01-20  8:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-20 16:31   ` Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
2023-01-20 19:13     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-21 11:30       ` Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
2023-01-21 11:48         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-22  6:23           ` Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
2023-01-22  6:38             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-22 10:46               ` Eli Zaretskii
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2023-02-18  7:55 Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
2023-03-11 12:45 ` Ongaro

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