From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Make all tree-sitter modes optional Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 08:04:20 -0800 Message-ID: References: <83h6x5xym7.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6wr6gmz.fsf@gnu.org> <868ri140sr.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fsc92gbz.fsf@gnu.org> <83cz6ccagy.fsf@gnu.org> <838rgzaqmj.fsf@gnu.org> <83pmaaaicy.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1owl8eg.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttzkl6mw.fsf@yahoo.com> <83a61c1hjj.fsf@gnu.org> <20d7e0c0-d701-6672-4e6c-e005aac128db@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6811"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, juri@linkov.net, casouri@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, theo@thornhill.no, jostein@secure.kjonigsen.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 17 17:05:19 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pT3Eb-0001aJ-GM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 17:05:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pT3Dm-0003dT-ME; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:04:26 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pT3Dl-0003cy-Ga for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:04:25 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-oi1-x235.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::235]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pT3Dj-0000oP-Ir; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:04:25 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-oi1-x235.google.com with SMTP id az13so1647830oib.12; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 08:04:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=dHl/lZwFviATvMthgYRdqMiDLabNeKOrRqY82XQT1UY=; b=VPpCOtwCsYDgMvhi5Qlx1tsmznsNPX+SGsXxuRnJPArbPRF8/O8688nIj9C6ZJKEou +HBbpmc9JH6LrmIwuIuWWQLfdfYf0MGOyVbZoCnn+0XpjiGHSTyp0jRFcAo892ia2kxz yGA2cD3jbr6jT3OMHPvbX7NaOdRHtSTucIFHtB0/LtY0rc2PSkVrSjB4o2kh+LvIiBrJ gWVBruBLxjlL+d81n/EHXbG7Lk0mWbMWQVkc8gjo5iBo5oPV4L2WUMOJD4bq51/ry09k crdSdZEPMpXInHmfoM59JH4XrO+6Vik9+732DxpTQxf9wbgYvKweOBTI+UB+gdfjFoso y1wg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=dHl/lZwFviATvMthgYRdqMiDLabNeKOrRqY82XQT1UY=; b=uotICrqntMHLVOeFS0BszKRsZigyXF0LNgRv+hEz5jq95/fKsGPPgMMQ6zIUO61uB5 0i8Tml0G/35OGeQhiz6RWuxOJSHyz0p2lRN2yxku3ho6glCL2G/ZmmIXHGY3lq5bfCtS bYuianpKtIi1l/hhpcOG7epADSR/lN21PEjfCF5f1Rf5xvT8bWD1JXYAm2/1oc7k6E15 yirfB7YD5lsKHuP7Y/hjxJhMGL2cNHzMc6SCKAJGwbNZtX2jmn6uxY6H6jpNmGjBCgfb 7jiCiBg4BJXKDx9lm4wk4M967i6gq+izsykuXR/+6BAfzl/dB4Lx9SATfilciGIo615Z emfw== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKWpWE8LKOaes7fhzmHWZbgbZR+qUKyNenN9roGtHXE57muBDqGT 0ywmFmjm3hFI7AHsGtp71572y86fynlB+PPAWK0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set9wTqcGB1aI4wJ2XPXtShSmXqZW8bJWWPsmqhosvuqAL+gKdfHo2TSIU0/ZkIIvH5jeDo+fPNmB0jSKFAE6v0Q= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:11c5:b0:378:3f53:9e8 with SMTP id p5-20020a05680811c500b003783f5309e8mr571917oiv.291.1676649861856; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 08:04:21 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 08:04:20 -0800 In-Reply-To: <20d7e0c0-d701-6672-4e6c-e005aac128db@yandex.ru> X-Hashcash: 1:20:230217:casouri@gmail.com::cc5tuZ1io1Lloyua:5UA2 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::235; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-oi1-x235.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:303501 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > I just don't understand what's your plan here regarding Emacs 29. What's > going to happen next? What kind of feedback will you be looking for? > > What I think will happen, is people will try out the new modes, some > will suffer the inconveniences we warned about here and possibly think > less of Emacs as a result; Changing Emacs' behavior upon loading a file is very bad. We already know this (we even put it at the top of our coding conventions), and the fix is trivial. So from my point of view, there is no need to wait for users to tell us about it; we can act on it immediately. In comparison, I consider changing `auto-mode-alist' upon enabling a major mode a mere annoyance. I'll be able to hack my way around it myself, of course, but I think it will make for a bad user experience. Especially since it breaks our existing conventions: users are not trained to know that enabling a mode in one buffer will change `auto-mode-alist' globally. It is surprising, to say the least. Restarting Emacs is not a solution at all. It breaks my workflow, and I know that it breaks that of many users (e.g. those that start Emacs as a daemon when logging in).