From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Make all tree-sitter modes optional Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 09:41:20 -0500 Message-ID: References: <83o7rexe2n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6x5xym7.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6wr6gmz.fsf@gnu.org> <868ri140sr.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fsc92gbz.fsf@gnu.org> <83cz6ccagy.fsf@gnu.org> <838rgzaqmj.fsf@gnu.org> <7bad77ae-a176-d49b-5115-dbadf7e6d1bc@yandex.ru> <83cz6aaeys.fsf@gnu.org> <837cwiae2c.fsf@gnu.org> <83r0uq839h.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34553"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: dgutov@yandex.ru, acm@muc.de, juri@linkov.net, casouri@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, theo@thornhill.no, jostein@secure.kjonigsen.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 16 15:42:11 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pSfSd-0008nk-Cz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 15:42:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSfRz-0003z4-RQ; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 09:41:34 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSfRv-0003yt-EH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 09:41:27 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSfRt-0005uB-JQ; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 09:41:27 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 88F0E809A6; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 09:41:23 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id E6E568051D; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 09:41:21 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1676558481; bh=JEXn4hMKW7weZWAwU1DOaxrs1K2k1KzBKPbZB+QoemU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=eMQl8xhiKuRIEHg5NrQeacDoLBihrp3KP3H3NeaVtDHbaecUM/9oM6jD+TdszGmEc vqoJJrEJX6azYFMPS01V433CZHZelz4DxEDPe4/T8ViXciIZRdom5FlgACb+mi59Hc gikxxNb+0vdBbWPX8A0UkbPy53rs4JxTBahBRNTMDGD2sjIaZ/1BKvCSKdleQYMUkG zziwkb24OXe72y+IGAv5aAL4vgz3iEdSjMi3735b8JPwm+6Gfk6Glw4AhJrnk40kor uPvHFy7ebpuBycbNx2uN3X+BHpalqtvxijJEfQr4Y/7gwUR+9Bb/B8BMRvU2i9kXAM 7UziJIn58FhaA== Original-Received: from pastel (unknown [216.154.34.24]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8D4CC1231E2; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 09:41:21 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <83r0uq839h.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 16 Feb 2023 09:42:50 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:303415 Archived-At: >> Overriding the user's `auto-mode-alist` setting when merely loading >> `c-ts-mode.el` is pretty drastic in my view, so the argument in favor of >> this should be very strong and clear. > > The argument is simplicity for the users to try these modes and turn > them on in their customizations. But with my patch, trying the modes is exactly the same (just `M-x c-ts-mode`) and turning them on in their customization is no harder (since `(c-ts-activate)` is no harder to type than `(require 'c-ts-mode)`; we could also make it a global minor mode so it can be done via Custom if it's considered important). I spent a lot of time educating ELisp package maintainers about the need to make sure that merely loading a file doesn't change Emacs's behavior, and that `require` should basically never be needed in `.emacs` file. There's *always* a good way to solve the problem without changing Emacs's behavior just by loading a file (with the sole exception of the `.emacs` file itself, for which changing Emacs's behavior is the sole purpose). >> E.g. just `C-h o c-ts-mode RET` or `C-h o c-ts TAB` is enough to load that file. > > That's an existing problem that should somehow be fixed, if we > consider "C-h o" a popular command used by many users (I don't > consider it that, and fail to see why someone would even think about > doing that). Replace `C-h o` with `C-h f` and the same holds. [ I only ever use `C-h o` nowadays. I too often used `C-h f` to look for a var or `C-h v` to look for a function. :-) ] Stefan