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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: dgutov@yandex.ru,  acm@muc.de,  juri@linkov.net,
	 casouri@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org,  theo@thornhill.no,
	 jostein@secure.kjonigsen.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Make all tree-sitter modes optional
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 11:45:30 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <jwvttzlzi49.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83pma939c4.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 16 Feb 2023 17:42:51 +0200")

>> But with my patch, trying the modes is exactly the same (just `M-x
>> c-ts-mode`) and turning them on in their customization is no harder
>> (since `(c-ts-activate)` is no harder to type than `(require
>> 'c-ts-mode)`
> Sorry, I don't buy this argument.

Care to expand a bit more.

>> we could also make it a global minor mode so it can be
>> done via Custom if it's considered important).
> This was considered already, but had its own issues.

Can you mention at least one?

> And we have ran out of time needed to look for better solutions.  (I
> personally don't believe there are any that weren't already proposed.)

Giving at least one downside of the patch I propose compared to the
current code would help me understand your position.

> We'll have to make this one exception to the rule.  The situation
> itself is exceptional and probably won't happen again soon, if ever.

I understand there's time pressure.  But I think this would argue
towards making the code more conservative (e.g. not change the defaults
at all, not even after enabling `c-ts-mode`) since that's much less
likely to bring problems now and in the future.

E.g. if users do as (require 'c-ts-mode) as you suggest, they'll bump
into a regression when they move on to Emacs-30 where we will have
hopefully fixed this misfeature.

I think if we want a quick&dirty short-term way to encourage the use of
tree-sitter by enthusiastic users, we should provide a "one stop shop"
function which redirects all applicable major modes to their tree-sitter
variant.  It's easy to write, it's non-intrusive, and future-proof (it
should be easy to preserve that function's approximate behavior in the
future, regardless of how tree-sitter's integration evolves).

The current code will bring bad surprises to some of our users when they
try Emacs-29, and it will bring further bad surprises later when we move
to a different solution.

The fix is trivial enough that the urgency doesn't pose any problem.


        Stefan




  reply	other threads:[~2023-02-16 16:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 119+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <84973.1672843723@hassadar.pretzelnet.org>
     [not found] ` <83wn62xi3k.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]   ` <m1cz7u5brr.fsf@yahoo.es>
     [not found]     ` <83o7rexe2n.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]       ` <83h6x5xym7.fsf@gnu.org>
2023-01-15 14:01         ` Make all tree-sitter modes optional Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-15 23:39           ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-16  7:43             ` Theodor Thornhill
2023-01-16 16:30               ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-16 12:34             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-16 13:06               ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-16 14:20                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-16 14:50                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-16 14:59                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 12:59                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 13:47                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 14:32                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 14:52                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 15:22                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 17:02                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 17:10                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 17:38                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 17:59                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 18:04                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 18:21                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 18:40                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 18:49                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 19:03                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 19:21                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-18  1:11                                                     ` Yuan Fu
2023-01-18  1:23                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-18  3:34                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-18  3:52                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-18 12:06                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-18 14:00                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-18 14:51                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-18 12:36                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2023-01-17 17:34                             ` treesit-forward-sexp (was: Make all tree-sitter modes optional) Juri Linkov
2023-01-17 17:40                               ` Theodor Thornhill
2023-01-17 18:17                                 ` treesit-forward-sexp Juri Linkov
2023-01-17 17:50                               ` treesit-forward-sexp (was: Make all tree-sitter modes optional) Dmitry Gutov
2023-01-17 17:59                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-16  1:12           ` Make all tree-sitter modes optional Po Lu
2023-01-17 17:30           ` Juri Linkov
2023-01-17 17:58             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-17 18:19               ` Juri Linkov
2023-01-17 18:41                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-14 19:08               ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-14 19:29                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-14 21:02                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-15 15:35                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-15 17:57                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-15 18:33                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-15 20:31                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-16  5:41                             ` tomas
2023-02-16  7:27                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16 22:05                               ` Yuan Fu
     [not found]                           ` <87v8k2g04m.fsf@dick>
2023-02-15 20:34                             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                               ` <87mt5eegkw.fsf@dick>
2023-02-16  7:53                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16  8:52                                   ` Po Lu
2023-02-15 21:40                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-17 13:30                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-17 13:37                             ` Po Lu
2023-02-17 13:46                               ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-17 14:16                                 ` Po Lu
2023-02-17 14:40                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-17 14:56                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-17 15:04                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                         ` <8735741fic.fsf@dick>
2023-02-17 15:41                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-17 16:04                                       ` Make all tree-sitter modes optional Stefan Kangas
2023-02-17 17:42                                         ` Morgan Willcock
2023-02-17 15:15                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2023-02-17 13:54                               ` Alan Mackenzie
     [not found]                               ` <d4c1a7f6-b5bf-f4f3-8d79-1c6b1d07cf70@yandex.ru>
2023-02-17 14:22                                 ` Po Lu
2023-02-17 14:58                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-17 15:18                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-15 18:34                         ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-15 19:01                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-15 19:26                             ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-15 19:47                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-15 19:53                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-15 20:06                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-15 21:04                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-16  7:42                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16  9:49                                         ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2023-02-16 11:48                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16 14:41                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-16 15:42                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16 16:45                                             ` Stefan Monnier [this message]
2023-02-16 17:05                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16 19:14                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-16 20:07                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-16  5:45                                     ` tomas
2023-02-16  8:26                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16 10:30                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-02-16 12:38                                           ` Po Lu
2023-02-16 12:53                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-15 20:24                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-16  7:05                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16  7:53                                   ` Theodor Thornhill
2023-02-16  8:34                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-16  8:46                                       ` Theodor Thornhill
2023-02-16 11:58                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-16 11:56                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-16 14:48                                       ` Theodor Thornhill via Emacs development discussions.
2023-02-16 14:56                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-02-16 15:15                                           ` Theodor Thornhill
2023-02-15 23:48                               ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-02-16  2:56                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-15 19:07                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-15 19:27                             ` Stefan Monnier
2023-02-15 21:06                             ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2023-02-16  7:44                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-02-15 18:25                 ` Juri Linkov
2023-01-19 16:53 Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
2023-01-20  8:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-20 16:31   ` Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
2023-01-20 19:13     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-21 11:30       ` Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
2023-01-21 11:48         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-22  6:23           ` Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
2023-01-22  6:38             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-01-22 10:46               ` Eli Zaretskii
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2023-02-18  7:55 Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
2023-03-11 12:45 ` Ongaro

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