From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Make all tree-sitter modes optional Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 10:30:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <838rgzaqmj.fsf@gnu.org> <7bad77ae-a176-d49b-5115-dbadf7e6d1bc@yandex.ru> <83cz6aaeys.fsf@gnu.org> <837cwiae2c.fsf@gnu.org> <83cz6a819j.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21972"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 16 11:31:25 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pSbXw-0005Xo-Uh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 11:31:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSbX7-0000S4-QN; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 05:30:33 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSbX5-0000Rm-91 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 05:30:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mx3.muc.de ([193.149.48.5]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSbX3-0006SM-7k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 05:30:30 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 78393 invoked by uid 3782); 16 Feb 2023 11:30:26 +0100 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pd953a954.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.83.169.84]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 11:30:25 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 18295 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Feb 2023 10:30:25 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83cz6a819j.fsf@gnu.org> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.5; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mx3.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:303396 Archived-At: Hello, Eli. On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 10:26:00 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 06:45:13 +0100 > > From: > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 10:06:35PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Well, I do. And I explained this several times already in the past, > > I don't understand that. To me it feels like pushing people to bump > > into ts-modes whether they want or not. > These modes are completely optional, turned off by default. Users > need to turn them on, in one of the described ways, for them to take > any effect. None of the described ways of turning on the modes > happens automatically. I'm bewildered how this can be regarded as > "pushing people to bump into" these modes. Are you sure we are > talking about the same editor? I'm a little surprised that you don't appreciate how other people (such as me) work, and that you seem to regard restarting Emacs as a perfectly acceptable way of reversing M-x c-ts-mode. (Some) users will not be satisfied with a single switch to c-ts-mode, they will want to move backwards and forwards to and from CC Mode IN THE SAME EMACS SESSION, and will resent continually having to restart Emacs to do so. This "moving backwards and forward" is asymmetric. It is far, far easier to switch into c-ts-mode than switch out of it, and I feel this is not right. It is why I proposed c-make-ts-undefault-mode. Also, restarting Emacs will NOT restore auto-mode-alist, unless the user doesn't use desktop, or somehow knows (how?) he must clear his desktop of c-ts-mode buffers before restarting. I foresee much wasted time and frustration resulting from this. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).