Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Pierre Neidhardt]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 652 bytes --]

Hi Guixers!

I've just updated the Nyxt package to 2-pre-release-4 which includes a
package manager GUI that supports Guix!

You can:

- describe-os-package
- install-os-package
- uninstall-os-package
- list-os-package-files

- install-package-manifest
- edit-package-manifest

- describe-os-generation
- switch-os-generation
- delete-os-generation

All these commands support existing profiles.  Profile creation is not
supported at the moment.

Most of these commands work with multiple selections (C-space, M-a to
select all).

Interested in your feedback!

Happy hacking!

-- 
Pierre Neidhardt
https://ambrevar.xyz/

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 511 bytes --]

Re: Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Pierre Neidhardt]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 134 bytes --]

Screenshots here:

https://nyxt.atlas.engineer/article/release-2-pre-release-4.org

-- 
Pierre Neidhardt
https://ambrevar.xyz/

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 511 bytes --]

Re: Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Jan Wielkiewicz]

Dnia 2020-11-11, o godz. 15:41:33
Pierre Neidhardt <mail@ambrevar.xyz> napisał(a):

> Hi Guixers!
Hi Pierre!

> I've just updated the Nyxt package to 2-pre-release-4 which includes a
> package manager GUI that supports Guix!
Did you and a GUI for the package manager into the browser...? :)
I mean it's good to have a GUI for Guix, but isn't this against so
called "UNIX Philosophy" or modularity, saying more precisely?
I guess thats an Emacs thing, but I have never understood why.

> You can:
> 
> - describe-os-package
> - install-os-package
> - uninstall-os-package
> - list-os-package-files
> 
> - install-package-manifest
> - edit-package-manifest
> 
> - describe-os-generation
> - switch-os-generation
> - delete-os-generation
> 
> All these commands support existing profiles.  Profile creation is not
> supported at the moment.
> 
> Most of these commands work with multiple selections (C-space, M-a to
> select all).
> 
> Interested in your feedback!
> 
> Happy hacking!
> 

Jan Wielkiewicz

Re: Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Pierre Neidhardt]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 853 bytes --]

Hi Jan,

Jan Wielkiewicz <tona_kosmicznego_smiecia@interia.pl> writes:

>> I've just updated the Nyxt package to 2-pre-release-4 which includes a
>> package manager GUI that supports Guix!
> Did you and a GUI for the package manager into the browser...? :)

Sorry, what did you mean? :)

> I mean it's good to have a GUI for Guix, but isn't this against so
> called "UNIX Philosophy" or modularity, saying more precisely?

What is against the Unix philosophy?

I don't think GUIs are against anything.  This GUI I've worked on a
merely an interface, it does nothing but use the Guix API.

It makes searching and install/uninstall and generation delete
operations very convenient.  Everything is much easier when you have an
interactive minibuffer with live fuzzy search ;)

Cheers!

-- 
Pierre Neidhardt
https://ambrevar.xyz/

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 511 bytes --]

Re: Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Bengt Richter]

Hi Pierre,

On +2020-11-11 15:42:42 +0100, Pierre Neidhardt wrote:
> Screenshots here:
> 
> https://nyxt.atlas.engineer/article/release-2-pre-release-4.org
> 
> -- 
> Pierre Neidhardt
> https://ambrevar.xyz/

https://nyxt.atlas.engineer/article/release-2-pre-release-4.org
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
502 Bad Gateway
nginx/1.14.0
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

using
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
Mozilla Firefox 78.4.1esr
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
on pureos, debian-based
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
4.19.0-12-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.152-1 (2020-10-18)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

NBD, just thought you might like to know :)
-- 
Regards,
Bengt Richter

Re: Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Jan Wielkiewicz]

Dnia 2020-11-11, o godz. 19:35:57
Pierre Neidhardt <mail@ambrevar.xyz> napisał(a):

> Hi Jan,
> 
> Jan Wielkiewicz <tona_kosmicznego_smiecia@interia.pl> writes:
> 
> >> I've just updated the Nyxt package to 2-pre-release-4 which
> >> includes a package manager GUI that supports Guix!
> > Did you and a GUI for the package manager into the browser...? :)
> 
> Sorry, what did you mean? :)
Sorry for I-had-a-stroke message. I often build my sentences
non-linearly and end up with sliced streams of consciousness.

What I was supposed to write:
"Did you add a GUI for the package manager into the browser...? :)"

> > I mean it's good to have a GUI for Guix, but isn't this against so
> > called "UNIX Philosophy" or modularity, saying more precisely?
> 
> What is against the Unix philosophy?
I don't really like the term, because it became a buzzword recently,
but generally what I mean is building a program on top of a giant
framework such as a web browser isn't the best desing choice.
I think programs should be build in the modular fashion, so each
element is easily replaceable. I believe web browsers tend to do many
things and do them badly - they're a really poorly designed copy of
operating systems and its utilities.

I guess your choice comes from the lack of a proper GUI toolkit
available, but I'm just not a big fan of web browsers generally.
In fact I started writing my own GUI toolkit/application framework in
Guile just for the purpose of bringing modularity to GUI applications,
but I'm rather unexperienced and this might take a few years. 

> I don't think GUIs are against anything.  This GUI I've worked on a
> merely an interface, it does nothing but use the Guix API.
The first sentence made my point not clear - I have nothing against
GUIs.

> It makes searching and install/uninstall and generation delete
> operations very convenient.  Everything is much easier when you have
> an interactive minibuffer with live fuzzy search ;)
That's good, I just don't understand why in the web browser.
I'll try it.

> Cheers!
> 

Re: Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Ryan Prior]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 900 bytes --]

On November 11, 2020, Jan Wielkiewicz
<tona_kosmicznego_smiecia@interia.pl> wrote:
> [web browsers are] a really poorly designed copy of
> operating systems and its utilities.
>
> [...]
>
> I just don't understand why in the web browser.
> I'll try it.

The web browser is the primary operating environment for a lot of
people. Just as Emacs users built web browsers, terminal emulators, and
mail clients on the Emacs platform, the web platform also has all those
things (including various elaborate in-browser code editors.) So I
understand this as having the exact same genesis as the Guix interface
in Emacs: people would like to manage their operating system using the
interface they spend most of their time in, and for Nyxt power users
that would be their browser. I'm not at all interested in managing my
Guix packages using Nyxt, which is highly correlated to my not being a
Nyxt power user.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3206 bytes --]

Re: Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Jan Wielkiewicz <tona_kosmicznego_smiecia@interia.pl> writes:

> I guess your choice comes from the lack of a proper GUI toolkit
> available, but I'm just not a big fan of web browsers generally.
> In fact I started writing my own GUI toolkit/application framework in
> Guile just for the purpose of bringing modularity to GUI applications,
> but I'm rather unexperienced and this might take a few years. 

Is guile-gi not working well enough for your use case?

-- 
Ricardo

Re: Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Pierre Neidhardt]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1477 bytes --]

Ryan Prior <ryanprior@hey.com> writes:

> On November 11, 2020, Jan Wielkiewicz
> <tona_kosmicznego_smiecia@interia.pl> wrote:
>> [web browsers are] a really poorly designed copy of
>> operating systems and its utilities.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> I just don't understand why in the web browser.
>> I'll try it.
>
> The web browser is the primary operating environment for a lot of
> people. Just as Emacs users built web browsers, terminal emulators, and
> mail clients on the Emacs platform, the web platform also has all those
> things (including various elaborate in-browser code editors.) So I
> understand this as having the exact same genesis as the Guix interface
> in Emacs: people would like to manage their operating system using the
> interface they spend most of their time in, and for Nyxt power users
> that would be their browser. I'm not at all interested in managing my
> Guix packages using Nyxt, which is highly correlated to my not being a
> Nyxt power user.

Exactly :)

To add to what Ryan said, Nyxt has a interesting design feature: it does
not need to depend on a web browser!  Nyxt is rather a 
"Common Lisp interactive framework" and it would be perfectly possible
to implement a textual interface à-la Emacs.  Of course, web page
rendering would be much more limited though.

I'd like to work on a pure GTK (or <insert-your-fav-toolkit-here>)
version of Nyxt at some point.

-- 
Pierre Neidhardt
https://ambrevar.xyz/

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 511 bytes --]

Re: Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Pierre Neidhardt]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 373 bytes --]


Bengt Richter <bokr@bokr.com> writes:

> https://nyxt.atlas.engineer/article/release-2-pre-release-4.org
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> 502 Bad Gateway
> nginx/1.14.0
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Thanks for reporting, should work now!

-- 
Pierre Neidhardt
https://ambrevar.xyz/

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 511 bytes --]

Re: Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Jan Wielkiewicz]

Dnia 2020-11-12, o godz. 09:51:00
Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> napisał(a):

> 
> Jan Wielkiewicz <tona_kosmicznego_smiecia@interia.pl> writes:
> 
> > I guess your choice comes from the lack of a proper GUI toolkit
> > available, but I'm just not a big fan of web browsers generally.
> > In fact I started writing my own GUI toolkit/application framework
> > in Guile just for the purpose of bringing modularity to GUI
> > applications, but I'm rather unexperienced and this might take a
> > few years. 
> 
> Is guile-gi not working well enough for your use case?
> 

1. Never heard of it, but I'll check it out if it exists, maybe I can
reuse some code or improve it or even build on top of it.
...
Looking further into it I actually remember now what it is, just last
time I checked the bindings for GTK+ were outdated and not maintained
and guile-gi was in the early development stage. 
2. I have some interesting ideas that would be a shame to waste. I
actually don't care what displays the GUI, I'm working more on a
modular desktop experience - the set of small GUI (and not only)
programs working together by passing messages.
3. That's my project to learn programming in Guile.

Thanks for mentioning guile-gi, this will speed up my experiments.


Jan Wielkiewicz

Re: Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Jan Wielkiewicz]

Dnia 2020-11-12, o godz. 10:20:10
Pierre Neidhardt <mail@ambrevar.xyz> napisał(a):

> Ryan Prior <ryanprior@hey.com> writes:
> 
> > On November 11, 2020, Jan Wielkiewicz
> > <tona_kosmicznego_smiecia@interia.pl> wrote:
> >> [web browsers are] a really poorly designed copy of
> >> operating systems and its utilities.
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> I just don't understand why in the web browser.
> >> I'll try it.
> >
> > The web browser is the primary operating environment for a lot of
> > people. Just as Emacs users built web browsers, terminal emulators,
> > and mail clients on the Emacs platform, the web platform also has
> > all those things (including various elaborate in-browser code
> > editors.) So I understand this as having the exact same genesis as
> > the Guix interface in Emacs: people would like to manage their
> > operating system using the interface they spend most of their time
> > in, and for Nyxt power users that would be their browser. I'm not
> > at all interested in managing my Guix packages using Nyxt, which is
> > highly correlated to my not being a Nyxt power user.
> 
> Exactly :)

I see.

> To add to what Ryan said, Nyxt has a interesting design feature: it
> does not need to depend on a web browser!  

If this is the case, then I have nothing against it. I just don't like
when programs depend on things they don't need to, like a calculator
app written in <insert JS framework> with 500MB of dependencies in
node_modules and Chromium. This isn't a joke, this is the reality we're
living in.

> Nyxt is rather a 
> "Common Lisp interactive framework" and it would be perfectly possible
> to implement a textual interface à-la Emacs.  Of course, web page
> rendering would be much more limited though.
> 
> I'd like to work on a pure GTK (or <insert-your-fav-toolkit-here>)
> version of Nyxt at some point.
> 

Nice.

Re: Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Pierre Neidhardt]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --]

Nyxt without WebKitGTK has almost no dependencies: it's a very "light"
program if you look beyond the 100 MiB of Lisp image :)

(With zstd compression it's less than 30 MiB though.)

The reason why Nyxt is primarily a web browser (for now) is because the
*Web is the hardest part*: once Nyxt is able to browse the web well, then
it will be able to do practically anything.  Including much less like a
calculator with no dependencies ;)

-- 
Pierre Neidhardt
https://ambrevar.xyz/

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 511 bytes --]

Re: Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Jan Wielkiewicz <tona_kosmicznego_smiecia@interia.pl> writes:

> 2. I have some interesting ideas that would be a shame to waste. I
> actually don't care what displays the GUI, I'm working more on a
> modular desktop experience - the set of small GUI (and not only)
> programs working together by passing messages.
> 3. That's my project to learn programming in Guile.

Excellent!  I’m looking forward to it.  I wanted to play with McCLIM and
see if it could be adapted for Guile, but unfortunately I don’t really
have the time to fool around with it.

Alternative GUIs can be really neat!

-- 
Ricardo

Re: Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Pierre Neidhardt <mail@ambrevar.xyz> writes:

> To add to what Ryan said, Nyxt has a interesting design feature: it does
> not need to depend on a web browser!  Nyxt is rather a 
> "Common Lisp interactive framework" and it would be perfectly possible
> to implement a textual interface à-la Emacs.  Of course, web page
> rendering would be much more limited though.

That sounds like a Common Lisp version of Emacsy.

-- 
Ricardo

Re: Latest Nyxt features a GUI for Guix :)

[Pierre Neidhardt]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 560 bytes --]

Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> writes:

>> To add to what Ryan said, Nyxt has a interesting design feature: it does
>> not need to depend on a web browser!  Nyxt is rather a 
>> "Common Lisp interactive framework" and it would be perfectly possible
>> to implement a textual interface à-la Emacs.  Of course, web page
>> rendering would be much more limited though.
>
> That sounds like a Common Lisp version of Emacsy.

Indeed ;) although it's not there yet.
Oh dear these things take time...

-- 
Pierre Neidhardt
https://ambrevar.xyz/

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 511 bytes --]