From: P <pronaip@protonmail.com>
To: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
Cc: "svante.signell@gmail.com" <svante.signell@gmail.com>,
"Ludovic Courtès" <ludo@gnu.org>,
"guix-devel@gnu.org" <guix-devel@gnu.org>,
"help-guix@gnu.org" <help-guix@gnu.org>,
"GNU Guix maintainers" <guix-maintainers@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Joint statement on the GNU Project
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 20:32:44 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3Eu4E-F8aPpRXQrn1QtCVNRziOcK9SGcpbKCNrsbT8B7khu794xQGeT6YmwPC0fHyoGL6IO950ei1M96vA_3AALQv5e9AKp3ACI7yCbjfEw=@protonmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <550194FB-102B-4796-974A-18028C03848A@gnu.support>
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Thursday, October 10, 2019 7:22 PM, Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> wrote:
> > Your problem is that you published this statement to guix-devel. If you
> > don't mind, I'll forward your mail to gnu-system-discuss, which is the
> > appropriate mailing list.
>
> I don't mind.
>
> Guix developers published biased and factless defamation of RMS on Guix pages.
This is what they actually said: "GNU is not fulfilling its mission when the behavior of its leader alienates a large part of those we want to reach out to."
Which is true, and the funny thing is, it's true by your own admission as well. You said that people attacked RMS for his statement. What is that if not alienation?
I've seen people publicly state that they'll cancel their membership and donate to Conservancy instead of FSF.
And there is this thread by a free software developer who helped draft GPLv3 [1].
As far as I can tell, you have not disproven those statements, so I can only conclude that you either were not aware of them, which would mean that you did not actually look into the problem as deeply as you would want us to believe, or that you were aware of them, but dismissed them as insignificant, which would reflect badly on your value system.
And even before this incident, I've seen people say they don't want to get into free software because of Stallman's behaviour and because people defend him from any criticism.
Don't put Stallman on a pedestal, he is not perfect, and just because he founded GNU doesn't mean he should lead it forever or that he should have final say in everything.
ps.: sorry for writing this on the devel list, but there is so much vitriol against the core devs here already that I felt like I had to counterbalance it.
[1]: https://pleroma.site/notice/9nh9bWH6RbrQinMp1M
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-10-10 20:33 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 137+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-10-07 14:32 Joint statement on the GNU Project Ludovic Courtès
2019-10-08 0:24 ` Jesse Gibbons
2019-10-08 1:59 ` Wilson Bustos
2019-10-08 8:19 ` pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
2019-10-08 10:32 ` Jan
2019-10-08 13:52 ` Jesse Gibbons
2019-10-10 3:51 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-10 20:12 ` Adam Pribyl
2019-10-08 14:37 ` Wilson Bustos
2019-10-10 3:55 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-10 3:48 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-10 3:46 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-08 8:34 ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-10-08 8:48 ` Pierre Neidhardt
2019-10-08 11:17 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2019-10-10 4:01 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-10 4:00 ` Jean Louis
[not found] ` <87pnj5i3u2.fsf@elephly.net>
2019-10-10 5:17 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-10 14:29 ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-10-10 16:56 ` Thorsten Wilms
2019-10-10 22:10 ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-10-10 16:57 ` Stefan Huchler
2019-10-10 22:50 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2019-10-10 17:27 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-10 19:13 ` Svante Signell
2019-10-10 19:22 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-10 20:23 ` Svante Signell
2019-10-10 20:27 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-12 7:06 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-30 2:04 ` Richard Stallman
2019-10-30 6:09 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-30 18:16 ` Thompson, David
2019-10-10 20:32 ` P [this message]
2019-10-10 20:51 ` Wilson Bustos
2019-10-10 21:03 ` Vasya Boytsov
2019-10-12 12:05 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-12 14:38 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-12 7:52 ` Jean Louis
[not found] ` <fa683d19-34ec-7b09-30a4-f4c139adf5ee@frantovo.cz>
[not found] ` <87h84gtig9.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <0936b8b2-ffbf-6370-71be-db24be1fd743@frantovo.cz>
[not found] ` <87r23jvi7n.fsf@gnu.org>
2019-10-11 8:53 ` František Kučera
2019-10-12 11:15 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-10 23:27 ` Quiliro Ordóñez
2019-10-11 8:03 ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-10-12 12:19 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-12 12:27 ` Pierre-Henry F.
2019-10-10 3:57 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-10 8:43 ` Hartmut Goebel
2019-10-10 10:10 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-08 16:38 ` Dimakakos Dimos
2019-10-08 17:30 ` P
2019-10-08 19:17 ` Dimakakos Dimos
2019-10-10 4:11 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-08 20:18 ` zimoun
2019-10-10 4:15 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-09 8:56 ` Andy Wingo
2019-10-10 4:26 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-10 21:41 ` Arun Isaac
2019-10-10 21:53 ` Svante Signell
2019-10-10 22:24 ` František Kučera
2019-10-10 4:09 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-08 16:42 ` Pierre Neidhardt
2019-10-08 16:57 ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
2019-10-09 9:49 ` Pierre Neidhardt
2019-10-09 11:01 ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
2019-10-10 16:19 ` Mikhail Kryshen
2019-10-10 22:25 ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-10-10 23:49 ` Catallaxy
2019-10-13 3:55 ` Mikhail Kryshen
2019-10-13 6:30 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-11 18:41 ` Taylan Kammer
2019-10-11 19:14 ` Dmitry Alexandrov
2019-10-11 21:09 ` Christophe Poncy
2019-10-12 14:43 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-11 23:04 ` Jelle Licht
2019-10-12 18:43 ` Taylan Kammer
2019-10-12 19:09 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2019-10-12 19:26 ` Dmitry Alexandrov
2019-10-12 20:11 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-12 19:26 ` P
2019-10-12 21:27 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2019-10-12 21:45 ` Alexander Vdolainen
2019-10-14 1:50 ` Richard Stallman
2019-10-14 1:44 ` Richard Stallman
2019-10-18 3:10 ` Richard Stallman
2019-10-12 13:06 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-12 13:38 ` pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
2019-10-12 14:16 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-12 14:27 ` František Kučera
2019-10-12 17:22 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-12 17:37 ` P
2019-10-12 17:46 ` Wilson Bustos
2019-10-12 17:59 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-12 17:59 ` P
2019-10-12 18:22 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-12 18:31 ` P
2019-10-12 18:24 ` Wilson Bustos
2019-10-12 18:32 ` P
2019-10-12 19:04 ` Wilson Bustos
2019-10-12 19:24 ` P
2019-10-12 19:28 ` Wilson Bustos
2019-10-12 21:01 ` František Kučera
2019-10-12 21:23 ` Reminder about discussions on this list Ricardo Wurmus
2019-10-12 20:52 ` Joint statement on the GNU Project František Kučera
2019-10-12 21:23 ` “do not add my address as an explicit recipient” (was: Joint statement on the GNU Project) Dmitry Alexandrov
2019-10-12 18:40 ` Joint statement on the GNU Project Jean Louis
2019-10-14 13:30 ` zimoun
2019-10-14 16:14 ` Wilson Bustos
2019-10-14 17:13 ` zimoun
2019-10-14 22:26 ` Wilson Bustos
2019-10-12 17:53 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-12 18:03 ` P
2019-10-12 18:14 ` P
2019-10-14 1:44 ` Richard Stallman
2019-10-12 18:27 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-12 18:37 ` P
2019-10-12 18:54 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-12 19:20 ` P
2019-10-12 21:42 ` František Kučera
2019-10-12 19:33 ` pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
2019-10-14 1:44 ` Richard Stallman
2019-10-14 7:51 ` František Kučera
2019-10-12 15:44 ` Wilson Bustos
2019-10-12 15:50 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-12 16:05 ` Eric Myhre
2019-10-12 16:13 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-13 17:24 ` Ingo Ruhnke
2019-10-12 17:08 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2019-10-12 17:26 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-12 15:49 ` brice
2019-10-12 17:36 ` znavko
2019-10-12 17:43 ` P
2019-10-29 14:11 ` Eric Brown
2019-10-29 15:05 ` don catnip
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2019-10-07 21:14 František Kučera
2019-10-07 21:41 ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-10-10 3:45 ` Jean Louis
2019-10-10 10:48 ` František Kučera
2019-10-10 3:40 ` Jean Louis
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