RE: Default behaviour of RET.

[Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>]

> >> I want a key that is easily reached and that
> >> performs newline-and-indent.  Every modern IDE does that.
> >
> > Emacs does that too, with `C-j'.  Easily reached by most, I think.
> 
> Every IDE does that when the user presses RET.

Not if you count Emacs as an IDE. ;-)

> The question is what would be the sane default.

The default Emacs behavior for this is quite sane, and has been so
for almost 40 years now.

That it is not the same as the default behavior of this or that
other application does not make the Emacs default behavior insane.

> > Sorry, I'm with Richard on this one.  You seem to be viewing a
> > local mole hill (if even that) from a foreign vantage point and
>                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > seeing a mountain.
>
> You seem to be under impression that Eli is somehow new to using
> Emacs.

You seem to be fantasizing.  The "foreign vantage point" is an
outside view, nothing more.  That is the argument, no?  "All the
other guys are doing it another way."

If you view Emacs `C-j' from the point of view of "every IDE" then
I guess it is possible to find it "much less convenient" than `RET'.
Otherwise, it is not.

Maybe it is a very teeny tiny bit less convenient - only a mole
hill, at most.  Certainly not "much less" convenient.  If it were
then Emacs would never have adopted `C-j' for this often-used
command.  Do you think those who did so felt that it was "much
less convenient" but went ahead and made it the default anyway?
Or do you think that they were insensitive to user convenience?

There is nothing new that makes the difference in convenience
between `C-j' and `RET' any greater now than it has been at any
point in the past.  Exactly the same difference: same mole hill.

For Emacs, `C-j' has been considered convenient for this behavior
for a very long time.  And I, for one, still find it convenient.
It doesn't get much more convenient than `C-j'.  Circulez ; il
n'y a rien a voir.