From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rudalics@gmx.at,
monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de,
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,
stephen@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: Default behaviour of RET.
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 01:15:20 +0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <52659968.5070900@yandex.ru> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1878e4fa-50f2-4655-a4ff-30d1db708ee8@default>
On 22.10.2013 00:53, Drew Adams wrote:
>> Every IDE does that when the user presses RET.
>
> Not if you count Emacs as an IDE. ;-)
Only if you like splitting hairs.
Counting Emacs among points of reference for proposed change in Emacs
behavior is useless.
>> The question is what would be the sane default.
>
> The default Emacs behavior for this is quite sane, and has been so
> for almost 40 years now.
It is sane because it is old? That's a bad argument.
> That it is not the same as the default behavior of this or that
> other application does not make the Emacs default behavior insane.
The Emacs default settings are considered outdated by many of its users
(here's one tiny example:
https://github.com/technomancy/better-defaults). So discussing changes
in long-established behaviors can be useful.
>> You seem to be under impression that Eli is somehow new to using
>> Emacs.
>
> You seem to be fantasizing. The "foreign vantage point" is an
> outside view, nothing more.
Yeah, and who's outside? One of the most prolific Emacs contributors?
> That is the argument, no? "All the
> other guys are doing it another way."
Read it this way: "won't somebody think of the poor new users?"
And: "quite often standard behavior emerges for a reason".
> If you view Emacs `C-j' from the point of view of "every IDE" then
> I guess it is possible to find it "much less convenient" than `RET'.
> Otherwise, it is not.
It's ~twice as inconvenient, for obvious reasons.
> There is nothing new that makes the difference in convenience
> between `C-j' and `RET' any greater now than it has been at any
> point in the past. Exactly the same difference: same mole hill.
It's not the greatest of problems one might find with Emacs, true.
> For Emacs, `C-j' has been considered convenient for this behavior
> for a very long time. And I, for one, still find it convenient.
> It doesn't get much more convenient than `C-j'. Circulez ; il
> n'y a rien a voir.
You still haven't answered why you want RET to be bound to `newline'.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-10-21 21:15 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 49+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <<febb6245-ceda-4c33-a220-b0f24a1c34d2@default>
[not found] ` <<8361sqli02.fsf@gnu.org>
2013-10-21 17:01 ` Default behaviour of RET Drew Adams
2013-10-21 20:04 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-10-21 20:53 ` Drew Adams
2013-10-21 21:15 ` Dmitry Gutov [this message]
2013-10-21 22:03 ` chad
2013-10-21 22:12 ` Daniel Colascione
2013-10-21 23:10 ` Drew Adams
2013-10-22 6:49 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2013-10-23 20:23 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-21 22:13 ` Davis Herring
2013-10-21 23:12 ` Drew Adams
2013-10-21 22:59 ` Jorgen Schaefer
2013-10-22 14:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-23 0:10 ` Richard Stallman
2013-10-23 4:36 ` Josh
2013-10-23 12:29 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-23 18:15 ` Josh
2013-10-24 13:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-21 23:10 ` Drew Adams
2013-10-22 7:45 ` Jarek Czekalski
2013-10-22 12:03 ` Rustom Mody
2013-10-23 20:18 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-23 23:43 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-10-24 1:53 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-10-21 22:59 ` Xue Fuqiao
2013-10-21 23:09 Drew Adams
2013-10-22 0:37 ` Dmitry Gutov
[not found] <<525EDC50.8010401@gmx.at>
[not found] ` <<20131016192642.GD3125@acm.acm>
[not found] ` <<87mwm8g61e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
[not found] ` <<jwv4n8globm.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<20131018170320.GC2569@acm.acm>
[not found] ` <<jwvzjq6pdek.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<20131018204551.GC3012@acm.acm>
[not found] ` <<jwvzjq6c9da.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<20131019105836.GA2991@acm.acm>
[not found] ` <<762fa4a6-1a42-48b2-97ba-0f3ab7ef7ba5@default>
[not found] ` <<20131020145513.GC3484@acm.acm>
[not found] ` <<E1VY1SB-0006V5-EH@fencepost.gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<83a9i3l554.fsf@gnu.org>
2013-10-21 3:26 ` Drew Adams
2013-10-21 12:12 ` Rustom Mody
2013-10-22 1:25 ` Richard Stallman
2013-10-23 1:20 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-10-22 13:53 ` Kenichi Handa
2013-10-21 16:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2013-10-13 10:13 electric-indent-mode: abolition of `newline' function is not the Right Thing Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-13 13:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-13 14:09 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-13 16:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-13 17:28 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-15 18:28 ` martin rudalics
2013-10-16 17:12 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-16 18:34 ` martin rudalics
2013-10-16 19:26 ` Default behaviour of RET Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-16 19:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-10-16 23:17 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-10-17 0:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-18 17:03 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-18 19:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-18 20:45 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-19 1:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-19 10:58 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-19 15:07 ` Drew Adams
2013-10-20 14:55 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-20 22:26 ` Richard Stallman
2013-10-21 2:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-10-19 22:20 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-20 15:00 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-18 16:57 ` Alan Mackenzie
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