From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA>
Cc: martin rudalics <rudalics@gmx.at>,
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>,
emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Default behaviour of RET.
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 20:45:51 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20131018204551.GC3012@acm.acm> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwvzjq6pdek.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
Hello, Stefan.
On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 03:52:22PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> > The traditional docstring says that it moves to the left margin and
> >> > handles auto-filling. Eli's suggestion of `(insert "\n")' doesn't do
> >> > that, and it's not what `newline' does when corrupted by
> >> > `electric-shock-mode'. But I think it's useful behavior, and I think
> >> > programs should be able to rely on it (as opposed to users who can
> >> > modify the behavior of `One-Flew-Over-the-Cuckoos-Nest-mode' by
> >> > removing ?\n, or not invoke the mode in the first place).
> >> I can't remember ever seeing a piece of code which wants "the Emacs-23
> >> newline behavior". Usually it either wants to (insert "\n") or it wants
> >> to simulate hitting RET.
> > I gave an example of such code in the post which opened this thread. To
> > recap:
> > (newline)
> > (insert "(vi)")
> > (fill-paragraph)
> > The `-and-indent' behaviour messes up the indentation of "(vi)" and
> > causes it to get re-attached to the previous paragraph.
> I see why the above doesn't want the "simulate RET" behavior.
> But I don't see why it wouldn't work just fine with the (insert
> "\n") behavior?
The `newline' tidies up the previous paragraph, in particular it fills
it. It might also cause abbreviations to be expanded.
I could easily adapt this piece of code to cope with the `-and-indent'
which has been attached to `newline', but that's not the point.
The point is that there are a near infinite number of invocations of
`newline' in the wild, and an unknown proportion of these, possibly
quite high, will depend on `newline' doing precisely what its doc string
says. Their existence makes the utility of electric-indent-mode, at the
moment, questionable.
> >> This discussion would benefit from actual examples of code that
> >> fall into neither "do whatever RET does" nor "insert \n".
> > See above. Any code which is interested in filling (or, possibly, even
> > margins, if anything actually uses these) will get broken by the
> > `-and-indent'.
> "any code which..." is not concrete.
I've given you a concrete example of such code, several times. It's not
a particularly bizarre piece of code, either.
electric-indent-mode's indentation of a new line is broken. Please take
this behaviour out.
> Stefan
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-10-18 20:45 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 72+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-10-13 10:13 electric-indent-mode: abolition of `newline' function is not the Right Thing Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-13 13:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-13 14:09 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-13 16:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-13 17:28 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-14 12:56 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-16 18:46 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-15 18:28 ` martin rudalics
2013-10-16 17:12 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-16 17:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-16 18:58 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-16 20:55 ` chad
2013-10-16 21:07 ` Daniel Colascione
2013-10-18 16:51 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-16 23:22 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-10-16 18:34 ` martin rudalics
2013-10-16 19:26 ` Default behaviour of RET Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-16 19:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-10-16 23:17 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-10-17 0:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-18 17:03 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-18 19:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-18 20:45 ` Alan Mackenzie [this message]
2013-10-19 1:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-19 10:58 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-19 15:07 ` Drew Adams
2013-10-20 14:55 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-20 22:26 ` Richard Stallman
2013-10-21 2:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-10-19 22:20 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-20 15:00 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-18 16:57 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-13 20:00 ` electric-indent-mode: abolition of `newline' function is not the Right Thing Matthias Meulien
2013-10-14 13:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-14 13:31 ` Matthias Meulien
2013-10-14 16:46 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-15 15:54 ` Davis Herring
2013-10-15 20:03 ` Matthias Meulien
2013-10-16 2:44 ` Stefan Monnier
[not found] <<525EDC50.8010401@gmx.at>
[not found] ` <<20131016192642.GD3125@acm.acm>
[not found] ` <<87mwm8g61e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
[not found] ` <<jwv4n8globm.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<20131018170320.GC2569@acm.acm>
[not found] ` <<jwvzjq6pdek.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<20131018204551.GC3012@acm.acm>
[not found] ` <<jwvzjq6c9da.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<20131019105836.GA2991@acm.acm>
[not found] ` <<762fa4a6-1a42-48b2-97ba-0f3ab7ef7ba5@default>
[not found] ` <<20131020145513.GC3484@acm.acm>
[not found] ` <<E1VY1SB-0006V5-EH@fencepost.gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<83a9i3l554.fsf@gnu.org>
2013-10-21 3:26 ` Default behaviour of RET Drew Adams
2013-10-21 12:12 ` Rustom Mody
2013-10-22 1:25 ` Richard Stallman
2013-10-23 1:20 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-10-22 13:53 ` Kenichi Handa
2013-10-21 16:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] <<febb6245-ceda-4c33-a220-b0f24a1c34d2@default>
[not found] ` <<8361sqli02.fsf@gnu.org>
2013-10-21 17:01 ` Drew Adams
2013-10-21 20:04 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-10-21 20:53 ` Drew Adams
2013-10-21 21:15 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-10-21 22:03 ` chad
2013-10-21 22:12 ` Daniel Colascione
2013-10-21 23:10 ` Drew Adams
2013-10-22 6:49 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2013-10-23 20:23 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-21 22:13 ` Davis Herring
2013-10-21 23:12 ` Drew Adams
2013-10-21 22:59 ` Jorgen Schaefer
2013-10-22 14:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-23 0:10 ` Richard Stallman
2013-10-23 4:36 ` Josh
2013-10-23 12:29 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-23 18:15 ` Josh
2013-10-24 13:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-21 23:10 ` Drew Adams
2013-10-22 7:45 ` Jarek Czekalski
2013-10-22 12:03 ` Rustom Mody
2013-10-23 20:18 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-23 23:43 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-10-24 1:53 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-10-21 22:59 ` Xue Fuqiao
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2013-10-21 23:09 Drew Adams
2013-10-22 0:37 ` Dmitry Gutov
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