Musescore and other music notation packages like Lilypond, Frescobaldi, Denemo, Rosegarden

Musescore and other music notation packages like Lilypond, Frescobaldi, Denemo, Rosegarden

[Gottfried]

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Hi,

I read today bad news about Musescore, customer support is very bad, 
people don’t get their money back ...

e.g. https://www.trustpilot.com/review/musescore.com

I don’t know if that is right, probably yes.

So I am asking if there is somebody in Guix
who uses other music notation packages like:
Lilypond, Frescobaldi, Denemo, Rosegarden

I had a brief look at Denemo.
Unfortunately I didn’t manage to import Lilypond files, which should be 
possible.
Secondly this package is only in English language.

Frescobaldi (with Lilypond) can be used in German language, which is 
helpful.

I spend at least 100 hours to learn Musescore
and to change to Frescobaldi or Denemo I would have to spend another 
100-200 hours learning, which is not easy to make.

Rosegarden seemed to me too not so developed (I had a look some years 
ago), I don’t know if there are all the options, which Musescore provides.

I also don’t know if Frescobaldi or Denemo allows to decrease e.g.the 
fonts and the whole song so that it fits on one page, which is important 
for me. Probably yes, but I don’t know.

Does somebody use those packages, he can tell me of his experience.

I wrote simple songs, because I almost don’t know music theory, I am not 
a musician, ...
so a WYSIWYG package was helpful.
Frescobaldi with Lilypond requires a certain level of music theory 
understanding AFAIK, which would be difficult for me to learn.

If the Musescore team is so greedy to keep all the money they can get,
without really considering the need of the people,
than I have to consider in the long run to change to an other package,
but it is difficult, because I would have to learn again from scratch 
how to use those packages.


Kind regards

Gottfried



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Re: Musescore and other music notation packages like Lilypond, Frescobaldi, Denemo, Rosegarden

[Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide]

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Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> writes:

> So I am asking if there is somebody in Guix
> who uses other music notation packages like:
> Lilypond, Frescobaldi, Denemo, Rosegarden

I use Lilypond and for me it is awesome.

Can you export your Musescore files to Lilypond?

You can copy a few things from my songbook that mixes lilypond with
flktex to create songbooks:

Lilypond:
https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/draketos-songbook/browse/der-falke-tune.ly
flktex:
https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/draketos-songbook/browse/der-falke.flk
zongbook (which wraps them):
https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/draketos-songbook/browse/zongbook.tex
Instructions:
https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/draketos-songbook/browse/README.md

Best wishes,
Arne
-- 
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein,
ohne es zu merken.
draketo.de

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Re: Musescore and other music notation packages like Lilypond, Frescobaldi, Denemo, Rosegarden

[Gottfried]

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Hi,

thank you very much.

At the moment I don’t know how to use your songbook,
but that is not so important.
May be you can explain more, if you have got some time at some stage.
It is not urgent.

I tried to export a song from Musescore to Frescobaldi and it opened,
but with mistakes and to put everything right would need time and 
knowledge of lilypond.

1.
Did you install only lilypond and use it?
When I installed it, there was no icon/symbol in my menu
so I didn’t know how to open lilypond.

2.
How could I have opened lilypond?

3.
When I installed frescobaldi, than it was easier for me, because there 
was a symbol of frescobaldi in the menu.

4.
I would have to learn it from scratch
and additionally through importing songs from Musescore
I would see what the code looks like.

Kind regards

Gottfried



Am 19.03.23 um 18:34 schrieb Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide:
> 
> Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> writes:
> 
>> So I am asking if there is somebody in Guix
>> who uses other music notation packages like:
>> Lilypond, Frescobaldi, Denemo, Rosegarden
> 
> I use Lilypond and for me it is awesome.
> 
> Can you export your Musescore files to Lilypond?
> 
> You can copy a few things from my songbook that mixes lilypond with
> flktex to create songbooks:
> 
> Lilypond:
> https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/draketos-songbook/browse/der-falke-tune.ly
> flktex:
> https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/draketos-songbook/browse/der-falke.flk
> zongbook (which wraps them):
> https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/draketos-songbook/browse/zongbook.tex
> Instructions:
> https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/draketos-songbook/browse/README.md
> 
> Best wishes,
> Arne

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Re: Musescore and other music notation packages like Lilypond, Frescobaldi, Denemo, Rosegarden

[Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide]

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Hi,

Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> writes:

> 1.
> Did you install only lilypond and use it?
> When I installed it, there was no icon/symbol in my menu
> so I didn’t know how to open lilypond.

Lilypond is a commandline program that turns textual descriptions of the
score into a PDF (or midi). You use

lilypond THE_FILENAME.ly

to create the document, so automation is much easier.

You edit the .ly-files with any text editor you choose.

> 2.
> How could I have opened lilypond?

If you open a command shell, you should be able to simply type lilypond
(or, on Windows: lilypond.exe) to run it.

> 4.
> I would have to learn it from scratch
> and additionally through importing songs from Musescore
> I would see what the code looks like.

That’s one of the advantages of lilypond: you actually see what it does.
It’s the LaTeX of music and provides the most beautiful scores.

Best wishes,
Arne
-- 
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein,
ohne es zu merken.
draketo.de

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Re: Musescore and other music notation packages like Lilypond, Frescobaldi, Denemo, Rosegarden

[Gottfried]

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Hi,

thanks for your help

> You use
>> 
>> lilypond THE_FILENAME.ly
>> 
>> to create the document, 


I tried to go into my lilypond profile
and to create a lilypond file:

lilypond test.ly

but it doesn’t create a document.

message:
test.ly can’t be found.

Than I created a file:
touch test.ly

and opended it with:
gedit test.ly

So I can edit this file but
terminal message:
TypeError: Couldn't find foreign struct converter for 'cairo.Context'


Do I have to install something else?

How can I create a .ly file in the terminal?

On the lilypond website they create a file with frescobaldi, but they 
don’t explain how to do it in the terminal.



Kind regards

Gottfried


Am 20.03.23 um 15:43 schrieb Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide:
> Hi,
> 
> Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> writes:
> 
>> 1.
>> Did you install only lilypond and use it?
>> When I installed it, there was no icon/symbol in my menu
>> so I didn’t know how to open lilypond.
> 
> Lilypond is a commandline program that turns textual descriptions of the
> score into a PDF (or midi). You use
> 
> lilypond THE_FILENAME.ly
> 
> to create the document, so automation is much easier.
> 
> You edit the .ly-files with any text editor you choose.
> 
>> 2.
>> How could I have opened lilypond?
> 
> If you open a command shell, you should be able to simply type lilypond
> (or, on Windows: lilypond.exe) to run it.
> 
>> 4.
>> I would have to learn it from scratch
>> and additionally through importing songs from Musescore
>> I would see what the code looks like.
> 
> That’s one of the advantages of lilypond: you actually see what it does.
> It’s the LaTeX of music and provides the most beautiful scores.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Arne

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Re: Musescore and other music notation packages like Lilypond, Frescobaldi, Denemo, Rosegarden

[Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide]

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Hi Gottfried,

Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> writes:

>> You use
>>> lilypond THE_FILENAME.ly
>>> to create the document, 
>
>
> I tried to go into my lilypond profile

How do you go into the lilypond profile?
guix shell lilypond?

> and to create a lilypond file:
>
> lilypond test.ly
>
> but it doesn’t create a document.
>
> message:
> test.ly can’t be found.
>
> Than I created a file:
> touch test.ly
>
> and opended it with:
> gedit test.ly
>
> So I can edit this file but
> terminal message:
> TypeError: Couldn't find foreign struct converter for 'cairo.Context'

This sounds like gtk stuff is missing.

> Do I have to install something else?
>
> How can I create a .ly file in the terminal?

As a start you can use the simplest editor: nano

guix shell lilypond nano -- nano test.ly

Just edit the file there, then press CTRL-o to save and CTRL-x to exit
nano.

for starters:

# get a shell with the required programs
guix shell lilypond nano mercurial timidity++

hg clone https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/draketos-songbook
cd draketos-songbook
# edit the file
nano delfini-tune.ly
# create pdf and midi
lilypond delfini-tune.ly
# see the output
evince delfini-tune.pdf
# listen to it
timidity delfini-tune.midi

(that example is a song I set for my kids, so don’t expect anything fancy)

Best wishes,
Arne
-- 
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein,
ohne es zu merken.
draketo.de

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Re: Musescore and other music notation packages like Lilypond, Frescobaldi, Denemo, Rosegarden

[Gottfried]

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Hi,

thanks for your help.

It gives the same result:

if I go into my lilypond manifest or open lilypond with
guix shell lilypond nano mercurial timidity++

I can’t create a document with:
lilypond THE_FILENAME.ly

with:
guix shell lilypond nano -- nano test.ly
I can create a document.

I was able to clone your songbook
but
listen to it: > timidity delfini-tune.midi
was impossible. nothing happend after entering this command

to create a pdf was possible.

May be missing packages
like gtk stuff and something for midi.
 >

with which command can I copy the songbook from this guix shell into my 
home folder?


kind regards

Gottfried



Am 21.03.23 um 08:24 schrieb Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide:
> Hi Gottfried,
> 
> Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> writes:
> 
>>> You use
>>>> lilypond THE_FILENAME.ly
>>>> to create the document,
>>
>>
>> I tried to go into my lilypond profile
> 
> How do you go into the lilypond profile?
> guix shell lilypond?
> 
>> and to create a lilypond file:
>>
>> lilypond test.ly
>>
>> but it doesn’t create a document.
>>
>> message:
>> test.ly can’t be found.
>>
>> Than I created a file:
>> touch test.ly
>>
>> and opended it with:
>> gedit test.ly
>>
>> So I can edit this file but
>> terminal message:
>> TypeError: Couldn't find foreign struct converter for 'cairo.Context'
> 
> This sounds like gtk stuff is missing.
> 
>> Do I have to install something else?
>>
>> How can I create a .ly file in the terminal?
> 
> As a start you can use the simplest editor: nano
> 
> guix shell lilypond nano -- nano test.ly
> 
> Just edit the file there, then press CTRL-o to save and CTRL-x to exit
> nano.
> 
> for starters:
> 
> # get a shell with the required programs
> guix shell lilypond nano mercurial timidity++
> 
> hg clone https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/draketos-songbook
> cd draketos-songbook
> # edit the file
> nano delfini-tune.ly
> # create pdf and midi
> lilypond delfini-tune.ly
> # see the output
> evince delfini-tune.pdf
> # listen to it
> timidity delfini-tune.midi
> 
> (that example is a song I set for my kids, so don’t expect anything fancy)
> 
> Best wishes,
> Arne


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Re: Musescore and other music notation packages like Lilypond, Frescobaldi, Denemo, Rosegarden

[Martin Castillo]

Hi,

I'm just leaving a simle note here.

Am 21.03.23 um 10:02 schrieb Gottfried:
> I can’t create a document with:
> lilypond THE_FILENAME.ly

And you are not supposed to. lilypond is not a program to create or edit 
.ly files. It is only there to read those files and produce pdfs and 
midi files.

The command
lilypond THE_FILENAME.ly
is used to create a pdf using an existing file named THE_FILENAME.ly
as input!

Here is a simple figure. Programs are inside bars (|program|) and take 
input from the left and output to the right.

With frescobaldi the data flow looked something like this
|frescobaldi| -> THE_FILENAME.ly -> |lilypond| -> THE_FILENAME.pdf
where the middle parts were invisible to you, because frescobaldi was 
made that way, to hide that part. You just interacted with frescobaldi 
and used the pdf at the end.

If you change away from frescobaldi, the middle part becomes visible 
(i.e. you have to "do more"):
|nano       | -> THE_FILENAME.ly -> |lilypond| -> THE_FILENAME.pdf

Now you have to create the file THE_FILENAME.ly explicitly yourself with 
some program, possibly nano, and then call lilypond THE_FILENAME.ly so 
that lilypond creates the pdf file from THE_FILENAME.ly.

Now you can replace nano by your favourite (working) editor, so once the 
gtk stuff is fixed, you may even use gedit in the future.

Hope that helps.

 > with which command can I copy the songbook from this guix shell into 
my home folder?

Do you mean the pdf?
I'd guess it already is in your home folder: If you just started your 
terminal before executing
guix shell lilypond nano mercurial timidity++  and the other commands,
THE_FILENAME.ly should be in your home folder (/home/gfp I guess). And 
executing
lilypond THE_FILENAME.ly creates the pdf file in the same folder.

Here is how to copy a file:
cp source.file dest.file

Example:
cp THE_FILENAME.pdf ~/Dokumente/

This will copy THE_FILENAME.pdf to the Dokumente directory.
This assumes THE_FILENAME.pdf is in your current working directory of 
your shell.


(That just means you're in that directory with the shell. The command 
`pwd` prints the current working directory. With cd you can change 
between working directories:
$ cd   # this changes to your home directory
$ cd Dokumente  # go into ~/Dokumente, which is Dokumente inside your 
home directory
# you can swith down multiple directories at once
$ cd Musik/Noten # go into ~/Dokument/Musik/Noten
$ cd ..  # go one level up, back into ~/Dokument/Musik
$ cd ~/Desktop/Projekt/Musical # jump to Projekt Musical inside Desktop
$ cd ../.. # go two levels up to Desktop

Note, these examples assume that those directories even exist. If one of 
those doesn't, cd will print an Error:
bash: cd: Musik/Noten: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
)

Example 2: If THE_FILENAME.pdf was for example on your desktop, you could do
cp ~/Desktop/THE_FILENAME.pdf ~/Dokumente/songbook-v0.1.pdf
to copy it to Dokumente and give it a different name at once.

Martin

Re: Musescore and other music notation packages like Lilypond, Frescobaldi, Denemo, Rosegarden

[Gottfried]

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Hi,

thank you very much.
You can explain very well. So I have learned a lot.
I appreciate your endeavouring.

I myself was wondering why
> I can’t create a document with:
>>> lilypond THE_FILENAME.ly

this should create a document,
but I believed, what I read.
I guess Arne wanted to say something else and I missunderstood him.

Because when I tried this command, it really made a pdf.
I was wondering, but it was like this.

Now I tried again to:

guix shell lilypond nano mercurial timidity++
and with
cd draketos-songbook
I entered the songbook
and I saw the songs Arne had created.
I saved one song
delfini-tune.ly
delfini-tune.midi

and I was able to save the songbook in my home folder.

I think my mistake was that I was already in the songbook folder
and I wanted to copy the song book folder and not a file in the songbook 
folder.
Now everything went well except the fact I can’t here the voice of the 
midi file.

I have got problems with midi.
my programmes vlc and audacious, audacity can play the midi file
but I have no voice.
It is silent even I have put it to the loudest possible output.


Kind regards

Gottfried





Am 21.03.23 um 12:06 schrieb Martin Castillo:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm just leaving a simle note here.
> 
> Am 21.03.23 um 10:02 schrieb Gottfried:
>> I can’t create a document with:
>> lilypond THE_FILENAME.ly
> 
> And you are not supposed to. lilypond is not a program to create or edit 
> .ly files. It is only there to read those files and produce pdfs and 
> midi files.
> 
> The command
> lilypond THE_FILENAME.ly
> is used to create a pdf using an existing file named THE_FILENAME.ly
> as input!
> 
> Here is a simple figure. Programs are inside bars (|program|) and take 
> input from the left and output to the right.
> 
> With frescobaldi the data flow looked something like this
> |frescobaldi| -> THE_FILENAME.ly -> |lilypond| -> THE_FILENAME.pdf
> where the middle parts were invisible to you, because frescobaldi was 
> made that way, to hide that part. You just interacted with frescobaldi 
> and used the pdf at the end.
> 
> If you change away from frescobaldi, the middle part becomes visible 
> (i.e. you have to "do more"):
> |nano       | -> THE_FILENAME.ly -> |lilypond| -> THE_FILENAME.pdf
> 
> Now you have to create the file THE_FILENAME.ly explicitly yourself with 
> some program, possibly nano, and then call lilypond THE_FILENAME.ly so 
> that lilypond creates the pdf file from THE_FILENAME.ly.
> 
> Now you can replace nano by your favourite (working) editor, so once the 
> gtk stuff is fixed, you may even use gedit in the future.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
>  > with which command can I copy the songbook from this guix shell into 
> my home folder?
> 
> Do you mean the pdf?
> I'd guess it already is in your home folder: If you just started your 
> terminal before executing
>  guix shell lilypond nano mercurial timidity++ and the other commands,
> THE_FILENAME.ly should be in your home folder (/home/gfp I guess). And 
> executing
> lilypond THE_FILENAME.ly creates the pdf file in the same folder.
> 
> Here is how to copy a file:
> cp source.file dest.file
> 
> Example:
> cp THE_FILENAME.pdf ~/Dokumente/
> 
> This will copy THE_FILENAME.pdf to the Dokumente directory.
> This assumes THE_FILENAME.pdf is in your current working directory of 
> your shell.
> 
> 
> (That just means you're in that directory with the shell. The command 
> `pwd` prints the current working directory. With cd you can change 
> between working directories:
> $ cd   # this changes to your home directory
> $ cd Dokumente  # go into ~/Dokumente, which is Dokumente inside your 
> home directory
> # you can swith down multiple directories at once
> $ cd Musik/Noten # go into ~/Dokument/Musik/Noten
> $ cd ..  # go one level up, back into ~/Dokument/Musik
> $ cd ~/Desktop/Projekt/Musical # jump to Projekt Musical inside Desktop
> $ cd ../.. # go two levels up to Desktop
> 
> Note, these examples assume that those directories even exist. If one of 
> those doesn't, cd will print an Error:
> bash: cd: Musik/Noten: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
> )
> 
> Example 2: If THE_FILENAME.pdf was for example on your desktop, you 
> could do
> cp ~/Desktop/THE_FILENAME.pdf ~/Dokumente/songbook-v0.1.pdf
> to copy it to Dokumente and give it a different name at once.
> 
> Martin

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Re: Musescore and other music notation packages like Lilypond, Frescobaldi, Denemo, Rosegarden

[Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide]

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Hi,

Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> writes:
> listen to it: > timidity delfini-tune.midi
> was impossible. nothing happend after entering this command

That sounds like something is missing, yes. You may need to search the
web for a solution to that (it’s likely a general timidity problem).

> with which command can I copy the songbook from this guix shell into
> my home folder?

The guix shell just provides the packages, so the songbook should
already be in your home folder (or wherever you started guix shell).

In addition you can use

guix shell make lilypond -- make zongbook.pdf

to create the full songbook.
See zongbook.tex for the definition of it.

Best wishes,
Arne
-- 
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein,
ohne es zu merken.
draketo.de

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Re: Musescore and other music notation packages like Lilypond, Frescobaldi, Denemo, Rosegarden

[Spencer Skylar Chan]

Hi Gottfried,

On 3/19/23 12:52, Gottfried wrote:
> 
> I read today bad news about Musescore, customer support is very bad, 
> people don’t get their money back ...
> 
> e.g. https://www.trustpilot.com/review/musescore.com
> 
> I don’t know if that is right, probably yes.

There are 2 websites for MuseScore:

- "musescore.com" is MuseScore's website for sharing sheet music online.
- "musescore.org" is the website for the actual music notation editor.

I agree that "musescore.com" is not an ideal service, but the editor is 
still good to use, as long as you don't upload or download anything from 
musescore.com within the MuseScore app. This includes sheet music and 
MuseScore version 4's MuseHub (I believe it downloads extra sounds from 
their network).

---
Skylar