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From: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
Cc: 20322@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#20322: 25.0.50; indent-tabs-mode should default to nil
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 17:17:13 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m2d1tnh0x2.fsf@newartisans.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <568475A0.20609@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Thu, 31 Dec 2015 02:24:00 +0200")

>>>>> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> What's so confusing about it? They'll see the new behavior (or read NEWS),
> look it up, and customize one variable, if they really want to. Unlike new
> users, they might know the variable already, and they certainly know how to
> customize.

I don't believe this is a realistic assessment of what will happen. I just
don't.

> We don't actually know how many people it's going to be a problem for, do
> we? For all we know, most of the existing users already use spaces (the
> third-party community has standardized on them). And some fraction will be
> indifferent to the change.

We don't know too many things, that's the point. You're suggesting an
improvement based on what you think will be an improvement, while causing
difficulties that you don't think will be worse overall.

But why change? What is the driving factor behind this request? Do we know
we're actively losing users because we insert tabs when one presses the TAB
key -- to such an extent that changing this default will keep those users? Is
the change important enough that it's OK to annoy the people (our existing
users) who will be surprised by this change?

Otherwise, it sounds like a theoretical improvement to me, which is not enough
to convince me in matters like this.

> If it were up to me, we'd try changing the default during the development
> cycle of Emacs 26, and see how many complaints we get.

You're welcome to poll, but I don't think you'd reach everyone that needs
reaching. It would, however, at least be a data point.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2





  reply	other threads:[~2015-12-31  1:17 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 87+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-04-14  2:37 bug#20322: 25.0.50; indent-tabs-mode should default to nil Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14  3:07 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-14 14:14   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 15:25     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-14 15:39       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 15:59         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-14 20:24           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 21:43             ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-14 22:17               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-15  1:19                 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-15  2:08                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-15  4:19                     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-20 14:56                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-20 19:26                         ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-20 22:09                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-21  1:25                             ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-21 19:25                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-21 19:47                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-22 15:02                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-22 15:18                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-22 15:23                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-22 15:28                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-22 15:49                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-21 20:27                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-21 20:51                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-22 13:56                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-22 14:59                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-22 16:47                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-11-02 18:18                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-02 20:37                                       ` John Wiegley
2015-11-02 21:03                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-02 21:18                                           ` John Wiegley
2015-11-02 21:06                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-02 21:29                                           ` John Wiegley
2015-11-02 23:31                                             ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-03  3:32                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-02 23:31                                         ` Richard Stallman
2015-04-15 14:31                     ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-04-15 16:10             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17  2:48               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-17  4:58                 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-17 13:14                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-17  7:26                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17  8:11                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 14:17                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-17 14:36                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 15:55                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-17 16:23                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 18:12                     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-17 18:18                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-20 15:03                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-17  7:55                 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-04-17  8:12                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 10:55                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-26 14:27             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-27  2:52               ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-27  3:21                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-27 15:50               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-27 16:10                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-27 16:28                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-27 16:51                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-30  4:47               ` John Wiegley
2015-12-30 11:48                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-30 12:15                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-30 19:18                     ` John Wiegley
2015-12-31  0:24                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-31  1:17                         ` John Wiegley [this message]
2015-12-31  1:26                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-31  2:48                             ` John Wiegley
2015-12-31  6:30                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-04-14 17:15         ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-14 18:08           ` Nicolas Petton
2015-04-14 20:33           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 19:09     ` Achim Gratz
2015-04-14 21:58       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-15  2:33   ` Richard Stallman
2015-04-15 11:18     ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-15 16:17       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-15 23:03         ` Dmitry Gutov
     [not found]   ` <<E1YiD8o-000318-H5@fencepost.gnu.org>
2015-04-15 15:29     ` Drew Adams
2015-04-14 14:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-14 14:40   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 15:29     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-14 15:48       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 16:02         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 17:22         ` Philipp Stephani
2015-04-18  2:55           ` Dmitry Gutov

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