From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA>
Cc: 20322@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#20322: 25.0.50; indent-tabs-mode should default to nil
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:14:14 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <552D20B6.8030005@yandex.ru> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwv4moj4dg6.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@gnu.org>
On 04/14/2015 06:07 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> There was probably a reason originally. Nowadays, I think the main
> reason it's t is because there's no sufficiently good reason to change
> it (the hypothetical benefit of change will be smaller than the pain of
> having to suffer through too many people bitching at the change).
Let's do a trial in master, to see how much bitching this results in? :)
Consider this: when initially diving into Emacs (coming from some
experience with two IDEs), I was learning how to configure indentation
in different modes. The necessary steps were:
1) Find the variable `indent-tabs-mode'. See it doesn't help with the
amount of indentation per level, keep looking. Same with `tab-width'.
2) Find the language-dependent variables (js-indent-level,
css-indent-offset and c-basic-offset). It doesn't help that each one is
named in a different fashion.
3) Notice that while it almost works like intended, sometimes you get
tabs inserted. Go back to `indent-tabs-mode', put `(setq
indent-tabs-mode nil)` in the init file, see that it doesn't help.
4) Find out about buffer-local-ness and `setq-default'. That finally
does it.
The above steps required certain persistence.
> I.e. this is kind of like endianness.
One could say that about any variable with existing default value, no?
I think it's different enough: the current users should know pretty
easily how to change it, whereas it's usually a bigger issue for
newcomers. Better defaults would result in a better initial experience
bringing the adoption up somewhat; on the flip side, I can't imagine
anyone quitting Emacs over this default value.
And since this value is not just a user preference (it's
project-dependent), even those who prefer tabs have probably had to use
a different value at some point. So they know what to change.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-04-14 14:14 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 87+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-04-14 2:37 bug#20322: 25.0.50; indent-tabs-mode should default to nil Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 3:07 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-14 14:14 ` Dmitry Gutov [this message]
2015-04-14 15:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-14 15:39 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 15:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-14 20:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 21:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-14 22:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-15 1:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-15 2:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-15 4:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-20 14:56 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-20 19:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-20 22:09 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-21 1:25 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-21 19:25 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-21 19:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-22 15:02 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-22 15:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-22 15:23 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-22 15:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-22 15:49 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-21 20:27 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-21 20:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-22 13:56 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-22 14:59 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-22 16:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-11-02 18:18 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-02 20:37 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-02 21:03 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-02 21:18 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-02 21:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-02 21:29 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-02 23:31 ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-03 3:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-02 23:31 ` Richard Stallman
2015-04-15 14:31 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-04-15 16:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 2:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-17 4:58 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-17 13:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-17 7:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 8:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 14:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-17 14:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 15:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-17 16:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 18:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-17 18:18 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-20 15:03 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-17 7:55 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-04-17 8:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 10:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-26 14:27 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-27 2:52 ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-27 3:21 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-27 15:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-27 16:10 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-27 16:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-27 16:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-30 4:47 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-30 11:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-30 12:15 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-30 19:18 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-31 0:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-31 1:17 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-31 1:26 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-31 2:48 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-31 6:30 ` Richard Stallman
2015-04-14 17:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-14 18:08 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-04-14 20:33 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 19:09 ` Achim Gratz
2015-04-14 21:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-15 2:33 ` Richard Stallman
2015-04-15 11:18 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-15 16:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-15 23:03 ` Dmitry Gutov
[not found] ` <<E1YiD8o-000318-H5@fencepost.gnu.org>
2015-04-15 15:29 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-14 14:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-14 14:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 15:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-14 15:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 16:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 17:22 ` Philipp Stephani
2015-04-18 2:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
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