From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: 20322@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#20322: 25.0.50; indent-tabs-mode should default to nil
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:55:48 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <55312D04.5070209@yandex.ru> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83iocu95yu.fsf@gnu.org>
On 04/17/2015 05:36 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> This argument goes both ways, you know.
You're welcome to use it against myself when an opportunity rises. I
don't believe it's the case here.
> And no, it's not only my experience, as I mentioned more than once in
> this thread.
Sure, but one's circle of acquaintances is not the best metric.
> Are _you_ open to leaving C and C++ at their current defaults? What
> would it take to convince you doing that?
A decent statistical analysis of the current active C and C++ projects
would do it, if it favors tabs (or at least doesn't favor spaces too
heavily), as well as an obvious-enough way for the users to change the
indent-tabs-mode value in those modes.
> I gave you mine. I've seen, and still see, a lot of C/C++ code
> written by others, and they all mix spaces and tabs.
While GitHub is not an ideal sample, it's certainly bigger than your
sample, don't you agree? And a lot of corporations have been migrating
their libre software projects to GitHub in the recent years.
> True. But changing long-lived defaults always annoys people; you can
> see evidence to that on help-gnu-emacs almost every day. So we
> shouldn't change them without a very good reason. And I don't see one
> in this case.
Considering the size of the Emacs user base, one might say the evidence
on help-gnu-emacs is pretty underwhelming (or else we'd be drowning in it).
> I think you underestimate the widespread use of Google and questions
> asked on stack-overflow and such likes. People simply collect
> snippets from there and paste them into their .emacs. Problem solved.
Yeah, I guess they do. But that's definitely not ideal.
> But there's nothing wrong with this particular default. It doesn't
> reduce any functionality. Users that aren't annoyed enough will learn
> to live with it; those with higher motivation will discover how to
> change that soon enough. There's no real problem here. Unlike other
> arguments we had about changing defaults (font-lock, colors, and menus
> come to mind), this one does not affect any functionality at all.
The indentation style is one of the obvious bikeshedding topics. I
suspect a significant fraction of Emacs users try to make it just right
in their config from the start.
If you think that that value is not a problem, you shouldn't object to
changing it to appease the majority either.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-04-17 15:55 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 87+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-04-14 2:37 bug#20322: 25.0.50; indent-tabs-mode should default to nil Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 3:07 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-14 14:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 15:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-14 15:39 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 15:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-14 20:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 21:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-14 22:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-15 1:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-15 2:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-15 4:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-20 14:56 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-20 19:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-20 22:09 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-21 1:25 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-21 19:25 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-21 19:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-22 15:02 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-22 15:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-22 15:23 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-22 15:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-22 15:49 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-21 20:27 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-21 20:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-22 13:56 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-22 14:59 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-22 16:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-11-02 18:18 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-02 20:37 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-02 21:03 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-02 21:18 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-02 21:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-02 21:29 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-02 23:31 ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-03 3:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-02 23:31 ` Richard Stallman
2015-04-15 14:31 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-04-15 16:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 2:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-17 4:58 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-17 13:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-17 7:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 8:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 14:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-17 14:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 15:55 ` Dmitry Gutov [this message]
2015-04-17 16:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 18:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-17 18:18 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-20 15:03 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-17 7:55 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-04-17 8:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 10:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-26 14:27 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-27 2:52 ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-27 3:21 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-27 15:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-27 16:10 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-27 16:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-27 16:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-30 4:47 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-30 11:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-30 12:15 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-30 19:18 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-31 0:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-31 1:17 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-31 1:26 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-31 2:48 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-31 6:30 ` Richard Stallman
2015-04-14 17:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-14 18:08 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-04-14 20:33 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 19:09 ` Achim Gratz
2015-04-14 21:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-15 2:33 ` Richard Stallman
2015-04-15 11:18 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-15 16:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-15 23:03 ` Dmitry Gutov
[not found] ` <<E1YiD8o-000318-H5@fencepost.gnu.org>
2015-04-15 15:29 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-14 14:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-14 14:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 15:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-14 15:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 16:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-17 17:22 ` Philipp Stephani
2015-04-18 2:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
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