Re: Excessively energy-consuming software considered malware?

[Maxime Devos <maximedevos@telenet.be>]

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Bengt Richter schreef op vr 25-02-2022 om 13:41 [+0100]:
> On +2022-02-24 19:27:37 -0500, Christine Lemmer-Webber wrote:
> > I am all for these conversations; they are good to have as a society, to
> > examine our social foundations in earnest dialogue.  But I think they've
> > approached a point on here where they're no longer about Guix
> > development, in particular, so probably should be moved off-list.
> > 
> 
> WDYT of starting a list called "guix-off-list" to provide a
> place for those who enjoy this kind of discussion?

I don't enjoy these discussions much, I only participate in them
(and sometime start them) because they seem necessary.
However, a kind of spin-off list for discussions that start at
guix-devel but became largely off-topic may be useful.

For some context, I sometimes see responses like e.g.

Christine Lemmer-Webber writes
> [...] But I think they've approached a point on here where they're no
> longer about Guix development, in particular, so probably should be
> moved off-list.

but currently there is not a standard way to move it off-list --
do I just put everyone who might be interested in 'To:' and hope that I
didn't include too many/forgot some people?  What if people weren't
initially interested but are later? How to keep archives?

A separate spin-off mailing list might address this (does not have to
be on gnu.org or associated with guix per-se).  It seems like Ricardo
Wurmus wants any such list, if any, to be outside guix itself.  Would
you have an idea for the location?

> And maybe also a mailing list called "guix-grownups" --
> where casual adult language is accepted without triggering
> endless complaints.

What does ‘adult language’ mean here?  Fancy titles (I sometimes
see a few Dr. and $FANCY_WORK_TILE)?  Complicated turns-of-phrase?
I haven't seen any complaints about that though.

Maybe you mean profanity?  Profanity is not limited to adults though,
there are plenty of adults that don't swear at all and plenty of
kids that swear.

And what does ‘casual’ mean here?  Often people just say 'Hi' and use
first names, seems rather casual to me; I haven't seen any complaints
about that so far.

Could you point me at some examples from the mailing list archives to
make things clearer?

The only thing I could think of here as ‘adult language’ would be some
event in the past where some rando accused me of gaslighting,
completely ignoring any explanation I gave previously on why I believe
X is Y.  Seems rather adult-y to me, but not good material for a
mailing list.

> Coming to some mailing lists these days I sometimes feel
> like I've entered a restaurant where the menu is dominated
> by allergy and spice concerns.

There's plenty of food (= patches, discussion about how to implement X,
etc.) on guix-devel.  I don't see the analogy, how could one be
allergic to patches?

> (I have nothing againt special venues catering to sensitive
> minorities, don't get me wrong. What do I mean "minorities" eh? :)

I don't know what you mean with ‘What do I mean "minorities" eh? :)’.
Also, I don't see the relationship between these paragraphs:

> And maybe also a mailing list called "guix-grownups" --
> where casual adult language is accepted without triggering
> endless complaints.
> [...]
> [... some analogy between mailing lists and allergy information at
> restaurants? ...]
> I have nothing againt special venues catering to sensitive minorities
> [...]

What does not excluding people from minorities from going to
restaurants and mailing lists have to do with the proposed guix-
grownups?  I'm pretty sure that adults don't form a minority,
and I'd hope that grownups aren't either.

(After this mail, I'll stop CC'ing guix-devel@gnu.org except perhaps
to say where the new mailing list, if any, is/will be, feel free to CC
me. Otherwise, I think we could keep going.)

Greetings,
Maxime

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