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From: Maxime Devos <maximedevos@telenet.be>
To: Philip McGrath <philip@philipmcgrath.com>,
	Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@elenq.tech>,
	Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net>,
	guix-devel@gnu.org
Cc: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@ist.tugraz.at>
Subject: Re: Semantics of circular imports
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 16:55:21 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <2e85e1dba0f4dbb52898d5302843fbf9040fdda9.camel@telenet.be> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3493949.dX3coAEF3O@bastet>

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Philip McGrath schreef op zo 27-03-2022 om 10:12 [-0400]:
> In the context of Racket or R6RS modules, where the semantics are 
> essentially those of `letrec*`, I'm used to distinguishing "unbound"
> variables from "undefined" variables, two types of errors, though
> informally "defined" is often used more loosely: 

Guile also distinguished them, though possibly in a different way, and
terminology is inconsistent.

> 
>   1. Every variable reference must refer to a lexically visible
>      binding, or it is an "unbound" variable error. Inherently, this
>      can *always* be detected statically at compile time.

This is different in Guile.  If a variable reference 'foo' is not a
lexical variable, then Guile assumes it is a global variable -- it
doesn't check if the name of the global variable reference actually
belongs to an imported module, this only happens at runtime. 
Apparently Guile is a bit lazier than Racket.

> 
>   2. A variable may not be accessed until it has been initialized.(
>      More precisely, we could discuss a variable's "location", which
>      I see is part of Guile's model.) This is the essence of the
>      `letrec`/`letrec*` restriction: while the "fixing letrec"
>      papers[4][5] show that useful static analysis can be done, this
>      is fundamentally a dynamic property. Violating the restriction
>      is an "undefined" variable error at runtime.

I don't know how Guile handles letrec/letrec*.  However, Guile has
undefined(uninitialised? unbound? Guile has inconsistent terminology
here) variables:

(define foo) ; no value
foo ; I thought this would raise an "Unbound variable: ..." error but apparently not?  A bug? Looks like it returns *unspecified* instead ...

(variable-ref (make-undefined-variable)) ; -> Unbound variable: ...

(define f (make-variable #f))
(variable-unset! f)
(variable-ref f) ; --> Unbound variable: #<variable 7fb531f1cce0 value: #<undefined>>

(variable-ref (make-variable #f)) ; this variable has no name, so in a sense, it is not ‘bound’, yet it has a value

Greetings,
Maxime.

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2022-03-27 14:55 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 59+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-02-20 10:05 Excessively energy-consuming software considered malware? Maxime Devos
2022-02-20 10:48 ` Tobias Platen
2022-02-20 11:13   ` Martin Becze
2022-02-20 16:52     ` Maxime Devos
2022-02-20 20:39       ` Martin Becze
2022-02-24  9:23         ` Hartmut Goebel
2022-02-24 11:18           ` Martin Becze
2022-02-25  0:27             ` Christine Lemmer-Webber
2022-02-25 12:41               ` Bengt Richter
2022-02-25 13:04                 ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
2022-02-25 16:14                   ` Bengt Richter
2022-02-25 16:32                     ` Ricardo Wurmus
2022-02-25 16:49                     ` Paul Jewell
2022-02-25 17:05                 ` Maxime Devos
2022-02-25 17:35                   ` Taylan Kammer
2022-02-25 19:00                     ` Leo Famulari
2022-04-04  8:00           ` Attila Lendvai
2022-04-04  9:43             ` Maxime Devos
2022-04-04 10:15             ` Maxime Devos
2022-04-04 12:49               ` Attila Lendvai
2022-04-04 10:16             ` Maxime Devos
2022-04-04 10:37             ` Maxime Devos
2022-04-04 11:22             ` indieterminacy
2022-04-04 18:39             ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2022-02-24  9:13       ` Hartmut Goebel
2022-02-24  9:36         ` Attila Lendvai
2022-02-20 11:08 ` Ekaitz Zarraga
2022-02-20 11:27   ` Compiling blender Ricardo Wurmus
2022-02-20 11:34     ` Ekaitz Zarraga
2022-02-20 12:19       ` Faster "guix pull" by incremental compilation and non-circular modules? Maxime Devos
2022-02-20 16:47         ` Philip McGrath
2022-02-20 17:47           ` Semantics of circular imports Maxime Devos
2022-03-27 14:12             ` Philip McGrath
2022-03-27 14:19               ` Maxime Devos
2022-03-27 14:24               ` Maxime Devos
2022-03-27 14:33               ` Maxime Devos
2022-03-27 14:55               ` Maxime Devos [this message]
2022-03-28  4:24               ` Zhu Zihao
2022-03-30  4:50                 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-02-28 13:17         ` Faster "guix pull" by incremental compilation and non-circular modules? Ludovic Courtès
2022-02-28 18:50           ` Maxime Devos
2022-05-31  4:54             ` Gábor Boskovits
2022-05-31  8:49               ` Maxime Devos
2022-05-31 10:23                 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2022-02-20 15:54       ` Compiling blender Ricardo Wurmus
2022-02-20 16:14         ` Ekaitz Zarraga
2022-02-20 12:20 ` Excessively energy-consuming software considered malware? Taylan Kammer
2022-02-20 12:37   ` Maxime Devos
2022-02-20 12:44     ` Taylan Kammer
2022-02-20 14:59       ` Philip McGrath
2022-02-20 18:53   ` Christine Lemmer-Webber
2022-02-20 20:34   ` Jonathan McHugh
2022-02-20 12:32 ` Paul Jewell
2022-02-20 18:26 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2022-02-20 19:36 ` Ryan Sundberg
2022-02-21  9:29 ` Attila Lendvai
2022-02-21 13:06   ` Maxime Devos
2022-02-21 18:56     ` raingloom
2022-02-21 23:02     ` Attila Lendvai

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