From: Ergus <spacibba@aol.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 02:29:57 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <ADFF1E69-597D-4114-B7B0-B6CCD225E3FE@aol.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83ftyail7n.fsf@gnu.org>
On 15 September 2018 22:01:32 CEST, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2018 21:44:19 +0200
>> From: Ergus <spacibba@aol.com>
>> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>,
>> yurivkhan@gmail.com, hw@adminart.net, joostkremers@fastmail.fm,
>> npostavs@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk
>>
>> The mark-point approach is not a fundamental emacs thing, it is just
>a
>> design choice enforced for technical limitations 40 years ago (like
>the
>> vi modes, the meta-hyper-syntax and so on) This means that (citing
>Bill
>> Joy about vi) it was created for a world that doesn't exist anymore.
>So
>> it can (and should) be updated/upgraded as many other things in emacs
>> and any long living project.
>
>I don't agree with you, and in any case it's pointless to try to argue
>that using mark and point for navigation in Emacs should go away. You
>will never get this past long-time Emacs users. We must look for
>other ways.
Hi. I never told that it should go away now, or ever. But as many other design choices they could be a solution in a time. But if it needs changes or a reimplementation (or go away in the future) in favor of something better or new needs, then we shouldn't keep it as is only because a reduced number of people don't want to adapt to the new behaviours.
It should be clear about what is fundamental in emacs behaviour and whats just something that has survived.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-09-16 0:29 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 253+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-09-07 0:32 delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Noam Postavsky
2018-09-07 0:35 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-07 6:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-07 9:18 ` delete-selection-mode as default hw
2018-09-07 13:16 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-09-07 13:28 ` Robert Pluim
2018-09-07 13:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2018-09-07 13:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-07 14:16 ` Robert Pluim
2018-09-07 16:02 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-07 17:08 ` Robert Pluim
2018-09-07 20:28 ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2018-09-07 14:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-09-08 23:11 ` Juri Linkov
2018-09-09 5:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-09 16:16 ` Juri Linkov
2018-09-09 14:22 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-16 23:34 ` Juri Linkov
2018-09-17 0:36 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-17 22:37 ` Juri Linkov
2018-09-17 23:12 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-17 23:21 ` Juri Linkov
2018-09-17 23:36 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-19 6:53 ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2018-09-19 22:44 ` Juri Linkov
2018-09-07 14:39 ` hw
2018-09-07 16:27 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-08 17:37 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-09-09 5:15 ` hw
2018-09-08 5:14 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-08 11:32 ` Elias Mårtenson
2018-09-08 14:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-08 15:52 ` hw
2018-09-08 19:31 ` Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-09 3:19 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-09 6:08 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-09 14:48 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10 11:50 ` hw
2018-09-11 4:25 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-10 7:52 ` hw
2018-09-10 11:52 ` visual-region-mode? (was: delete-selection-mode as default) hw
2018-09-10 20:02 ` Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-11 5:43 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-11 18:25 ` Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-12 5:12 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-12 6:59 ` visual-region-mode? Andreas Schwab
2018-09-12 7:12 ` visual-region-mode? Yuri Khan
2018-09-12 7:44 ` visual-region-mode? Andreas Schwab
2018-09-12 18:31 ` visual-region-mode? (was: delete-selection-mode as default) Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-16 22:55 ` visual-region-mode? Juri Linkov
2018-09-11 21:56 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-12 19:47 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-12 20:40 ` visual-region-mode? Drew Adams
2018-09-12 20:50 ` visual-region-mode? Juri Linkov
2018-09-13 4:01 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-13 4:00 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-13 17:22 ` visual-region-mode? Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-13 20:08 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-13 20:42 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-15 19:21 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-16 19:31 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-17 20:36 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-17 22:24 ` visual-region-mode? Drew Adams
2018-09-17 23:11 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-18 0:11 ` visual-region-mode? Juri Linkov
2018-09-18 12:32 ` visual-region-mode? Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-18 19:22 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-19 1:45 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-19 19:22 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-19 20:04 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-20 18:14 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-21 20:28 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-24 17:42 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-24 18:07 ` visual-region-mode? Yuri Khan
2018-09-29 11:18 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-10-03 13:13 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-10-04 20:20 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-26 22:00 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-27 21:01 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-10-03 13:59 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-24 20:24 ` visual-region-mode? Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-26 18:12 ` visual-region-mode? Charles A. Roelli
2018-09-26 22:45 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-09-27 17:26 ` visual-region-mode? Alan Mackenzie
2018-10-03 15:43 ` visual-region-mode? hw
2018-10-03 17:03 ` visual-region-mode? Alan Mackenzie
[not found] ` <<m2ftxy3i79.fsf@aurox.ch>
2018-09-24 20:39 ` visual-region-mode? Drew Adams
2018-09-12 20:27 ` visual-region-mode? Juri Linkov
2018-09-08 18:16 ` delete-selection-mode as default Dmitry Gutov
2018-09-09 7:42 ` Elias Mårtenson
2018-09-09 14:25 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-09-07 9:40 ` delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Phil Sainty
2018-09-07 13:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-08 11:37 ` Phil Sainty
2018-09-08 14:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-07 15:35 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-07 16:16 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-07 19:01 ` tomas
2018-09-07 19:23 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-07 20:28 ` tomas
2018-09-08 23:19 ` delete-selection-mode as default Juri Linkov
2018-09-09 8:02 ` tomas
2018-09-07 20:33 ` delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Noam Postavsky
2018-09-07 21:31 ` tomas
2018-09-10 8:01 ` delete-selection-mode as default Robert Pluim
2018-09-10 8:09 ` tomas
2018-09-09 13:45 ` delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-09 14:22 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-09-09 15:12 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10 11:42 ` delete-selection-mode as default Filipp Gunbin
2018-09-09 20:39 ` delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Joost Kremers
2018-09-09 22:24 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10 3:08 ` Phil Sainty
2018-09-10 3:17 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10 5:15 ` Bingo
2018-09-10 13:34 ` delete-selection-mode as default Stefan Monnier
2018-09-10 8:46 ` hw
2018-09-10 18:16 ` delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-10 18:35 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-09-10 19:19 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-10 20:36 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-11 22:34 ` delete-selection-mode as default hw
2018-09-12 0:04 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-13 2:58 ` hw
2018-09-12 13:16 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-12 13:41 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-12 14:53 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-12 15:51 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-12 15:59 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-12 16:36 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-13 3:59 ` Elias Mårtenson
2018-09-13 4:16 ` hw
2018-09-13 17:46 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-13 20:32 ` hw
2018-09-14 10:48 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-14 13:41 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-14 14:03 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-14 15:37 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-14 14:29 ` Phil Sainty
2018-09-14 14:32 ` Phil Sainty
2018-09-14 14:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-14 15:23 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-14 18:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-15 21:20 ` hw
2018-09-15 22:37 ` hw
2018-09-16 0:22 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-16 3:15 ` hw
2018-09-16 3:34 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-16 13:48 ` hw
2018-09-16 14:14 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-17 21:00 ` hw
2018-09-16 15:28 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-16 16:30 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-16 16:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-16 18:20 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-16 18:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-16 20:17 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-17 21:22 ` hw
2018-09-18 12:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-18 23:45 ` hw
2018-09-19 5:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-19 20:09 ` hw
[not found] ` <<831s9tidjc.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-16 18:04 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-16 18:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<83va75gvc8.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-16 20:14 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <<CAP_d_8VcFjkQQxzgv+XUheE4Q33vNgbuGpGwtv2-dOEBuK7OeQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<83tvmpgtwe.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-16 20:29 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-17 5:28 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-16 8:06 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-16 13:36 ` hw
2018-09-16 16:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-17 22:11 ` hw
2018-09-17 22:44 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-17 23:30 ` hw
2018-09-18 12:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-18 13:14 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-18 14:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-18 15:28 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-18 15:37 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-18 16:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-18 16:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-20 1:46 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-20 5:45 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-19 2:26 ` hw
2018-09-19 6:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-19 20:36 ` hw
[not found] ` <<874leq799e.fsf@toy.adminart.net>
[not found] ` <<205df9be-2e5c-4cc4-a13a-7c80eb63bedc@default>
[not found] ` <<87in363zgq.fsf@toy.adminart.net>
[not found] ` <<aedad52c-aaf1-414d-bc8c-8e7d0284f4c8@default>
[not found] ` <<835zz5ie17.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<87musg0wyf.fsf@toy.adminart.net>
[not found] ` <<83va73f0mv.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<CAP_d_8WFoHecEv-krQmAP0fWVSYXDLWuwdKfXwpcLbkJYYfWJQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<83musegaf2.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<CAP_d_8VH38kAdG3QZ4EiM_3-S+PVFg=7QyxZP6pZG_mc3Qct5w@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<3f242636-6fa4-4e36-a37b-86f1d7088aae@default>
[not found] ` <<83h8img39b.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-18 17:42 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-18 18:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-18 19:15 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-14 15:15 ` Elias Mårtenson
2018-09-14 14:33 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-15 21:59 ` hw
2018-09-15 20:31 ` hw
2018-09-11 23:30 ` Juri Linkov
2018-09-12 0:13 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10 7:05 ` delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-10 13:41 ` delete-selection-mode as default Stefan Monnier
2018-09-10 14:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-10 14:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-09-10 14:24 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <<83tvmxo3iy.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-10 14:30 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10 14:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-10 16:09 ` Yuri Khan
[not found] ` <<<83tvmxo3iy.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<c7872ab4-8a1b-43bc-aeb4-2d08bc899857@default>
[not found] ` <<83muspo12f.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-10 15:25 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-11 4:22 ` delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Richard Stallman
2018-09-11 7:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-12 0:33 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-11 8:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-12 0:33 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-12 14:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-11 12:36 ` delete-selection-mode as default Stefan Monnier
2018-09-11 23:09 ` hw
2018-09-12 0:33 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-12 13:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-09-13 3:33 ` Richard Stallman
[not found] ` <<87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm>
[not found] ` <<770f48a8-664a-40ae-8e03-19f6aad248b6@default>
[not found] ` <<20180910181615.GA4829@ACM>
[not found] ` <<ab70ed3e-96a7-446f-be9b-e02130e71927@default>
[not found] ` <<874lev3bq4.fsf@toy.adminart.net>
[not found] ` <<20180912131602.GA5582@ACM>
[not found] ` <<87d0tihxzw.fsf@toy.adminart.net>
[not found] ` <<20180913174640.GB4019@ACM>
[not found] ` <<8736udkuit.fsf@toy.adminart.net>
[not found] ` <<20180914104833.GA4103@ACM>
[not found] ` <<CAP_d_8WpO9+w-W1ZXMyoucUNtofNQ3Bc6Gchmxj6Rgy1nm3FOA@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<83k1nojgia.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<7bed1f76-5bae-44cb-9b22-206b513043be@default>
[not found] ` <<83d0tfkj77.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-14 20:57 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-15 7:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-15 10:20 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-15 10:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-15 19:44 ` Ergus
2018-09-15 20:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-16 0:29 ` Ergus [this message]
2018-09-16 16:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-16 10:52 ` Alan Mackenzie
[not found] ` <3D72B095-01EC-4E7D-90F9-5691AEFE16DC@aol.com>
2018-09-17 2:17 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-17 5:46 ` Elias Mårtenson
2018-09-17 18:37 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-17 19:57 ` hw
2018-09-17 22:56 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-15 15:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-09-15 15:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-15 18:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-09-15 20:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-16 3:14 ` Richard Stallman
[not found] ` <<83zhwji4hx.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-09-17 0:55 ` Drew Adams
2018-10-03 0:22 ` Richard Stallman
2018-10-03 17:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-08 5:13 ` delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Richard Stallman
2018-09-08 14:54 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-09 1:23 ` Ergus
2018-09-08 17:25 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-09-08 18:08 ` delete-selection-mode as default Stefan Monnier
2018-09-09 6:08 ` Richard Stallman
2018-09-09 7:56 ` Yuri Khan
2018-09-09 14:33 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-10 5:47 ` Richard Stallman
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2018-09-08 3:46 delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Bingo
2018-09-08 15:03 ` delete-selection-mode as default hw
2018-09-08 16:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-09-08 23:27 ` hw
2018-09-09 1:15 ` Phil Sainty
2018-09-09 3:33 ` Drew Adams
2018-09-09 17:41 ` hw
2018-09-08 16:31 ` Bingo
2018-09-10 2:33 ` hw
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