Re: delete-selection-mode as default

[hw <hw@adminart.net>]

Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

> [...]
>
> Users should not get an active region when they don't
> want it, i.e., when they don't want to act on the region.
> And they should be able to easily get an active region
> when they do want to act on the region.

Highlighting regions should be separated from whether they are active or
not, and I don't want hidden regions, either.

Currently even when a region is not active (it is a hidden region
because it is not highlighted), you can do something with it, so users
always get an "active" region even when they don't want one.  It's only
a bit less active than it is when it is highlighted.

> [...]
> I suspect that things are very different for you, and I
> suspect it is because of `C-x C-x' activating the region
> even though you have no intention of acting on it.

Exchanging point and mark is a purely navigational thing, and somehow
the activation and deactivation of hidden(!) regions which may have been
modified because point may have moved since a region was selected last
time(!) has been mixed into that.  That is ill advised.

> [...]
> I feel like region activation by `C-x C-x' was maybe foisted
> on people who never wanted or expected to do anything
> with an active region.

Do you mean they would rather do things with hidden regions?  I never
want to do that.

> In any case, region activation has nothing inherently to do with
> swapping point and mark.

Right, so why not separate navigational functions from highlighting and
regions?

Use point and mark purely for navigation, set a selection-start-marker
with C-spc and a selection-end-marker with another C-spc (or whatever
key binding is appropriate for it).  The region is between these
markers, and you can have multiple regions in the same buffer.  Do
something with a region, and its markers are forgotten unless you use a
prefix.  Have a key binding to jump around between the regions in a
buffer, and you can tell Emacs with which of them you want to do
something by moving point into it.  If you want to do the same thing
with multiple regions, move point into one after another and make them
"sticky" for operation, or mark them right after selecting them.

That might make a lot of things much simpler, and we wouldn't have to
feel uneasy about the hidden regions all the time.

> [...]
> There you go. That's probably the right thing to do for
> someone who doesn't want d-s-m behavior. But then
> do you have to monkey around with temporary t-m-m,
> or do you just not bother, ever, with having an active
> region? I'm guessing the latter.

It can make it difficult to do things supposed to be limited to a
region.  I might disable t-m-m if I could see what I have selected with
it disabled and monkey.  I never use C-x C-x, so it doesn't make a
difference otherwise, which leaves nothing but disadvantages to having
t-m-m disabled.

> [...]