From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
Cc: toon@iotcl.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, agrambot@gmail.com,
emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [RFE] Migration to gitlab
Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 15:54:37 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83ftpmfp0y.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3b8e2195-07c0-a240-6164-8d34bcca344f@yandex.ru> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Fri, 10 May 2019 14:16:30 +0300)
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, agrambot@gmail.com
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 14:16:30 +0300
>
> On 10.05.2019 12:49, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
> > Personally, I think an Emacs client is almost a must, if we want to
> > consider something like GitLab seriously.
>
> I think you're already expecting the hypothetical person to have debbugs
> installed and Gnus configured, and view the bug through the debbugs package.
No, because the current flow is email-based, so having an email client
is 80% enough.
> > I didn't mean the commit itself, I meant Emacs sources in general. I
> > frequently need to look up source fragments and definitions of various
> > macros and structs when I review a patch. Since the browser have no
> > idea where the sources are, and is not in general a good tool for
> > viewing sources of a software project, it is much less helpful here.
>
> You can always pull the branch with changes that a user proposed
I think this is a misunderstanding, I wasn't talking about the patches
at all, I was talking about the rest of the sources. I tried to
explain that above. As an example, suppose a patch touches some
function or variable, and I want to see how that function/variable is
used in Emacs.
> >> Probably the most complicated about the current bug tracker, at least
> >> from irregular contributor's POV, is interacting to a existing bug:
> >> Where do I send the email to? Who do I CC? How do I set In-Reply-To?
> >
> > In any decent MUA (certainly with Emacs MUAs), this is almost trivial:
> > the defaults always DTRT. You don't need to think about any of that.
>
> Again, that already requires that the user is starting with an email.
The original question was clearly about doing this via email.
> Also: is GMail a "decent MUA"? I haven't used it for years, but it's the
> most popular MUA on the planet now. And that's a fact.
If you mean the decision whether to click "Reply" or "Reply all" in
the Gmail UI, then yes, the user will have to learn to click the
latter. If that's a burden, then I guess Gmail is not "reasonable".
> >> On debbugs, I also always forget how to use the control server
> >> commands.
> >
> > Having a need to use the control command is rare, so I don't think
> > this is a serious disadvantage.
>
> Rare to set the "found in" or "fixed in" versions? Or retitle a bug? Or
> reopen? Or assign it to somebody?
Yes, all of the above. Just look at how much these are used in Emacs.
> > Besides, tricky control commands will
> > give you that with any tool.
>
> That's simply not true. A good tool will make a certain set of commands
> easy.
I guess we have different experiences about that.
> >> GitLab fixes that by showing buttons for actions like
> >> close/reopen/label/assign...
> >
> > There are maybe 2 or 3 people in the Emacs project who use these
> > actions, so I'm not sure why we should be so interested in them.
>
> If they were easier to do, *I* would do them more often.
What for? Why would you need to do that?
> > I don't know. If the email notifications can be configured to work
> > reasonably well, and could be responded to by email, that might be
> > enough to start a more serious evaluation of the workflow.
>
> If you're saying that we don't change labels of reassign bugs often, how
> are occasional notifications for these actions a problem?
Who are "we"? The few people who do that tend to do it quite a lot.
And every bug is closed, which also causes a useless notification.
And when a patch is posted, I get another useless notification.
Etc. etc.
> I've tried to recall whether I receive them as well at my day job (we
> use GitLab) and... at first, I thought I don't get them at all. Them I
> remembered that MR reassignment emails do get sent. It just happens very
> rarely. But if it happens, that's an important action, so I don't
> understand why you don't want to be notified (they can probably be
> configured anyway).
MR reassignments are important to just 2 people: the old and the new
assignee, possibly just the latter. I certainly don't want to know
about all the reassignments of all the issues. On the rare occasion
that I do need to see that, I will gladly use a special UI for
browsing the history of an issue in some way, but that happens very
rarely, at least to me.
> More importantly, one can easily *unsubscribe* from particular
> discussions. For instance, when the bug been forwarded to somebody who
> has all the necessary expertise and responsibility. That can cut down on
> email traffic quite a bit.
In my position, I don't think I will be able to unsubscribe, so this
is not a good option for someone who wants to read most of the
issue-related traffic. People who do the triage are like that, for
example.
> >>> And one more thing: Emacs is I think special in how we work as a
> >>> team. Most of the people who respond to bug report and review patches
> >>> have write access to the repository, and many of them are trusted to
> >>> push changes without approval. It sounds like Gitlab has a very
> >>> different team organization in mind, but maybe I'm mistaken.
>
> At work, we all have commit/push access to the project repositories.
>
> And yet, the Merge Request workflow is still helpful, and it's what we
> use to collaborate, discuss and push most features.
>
> We could consider being able to access MR from people without commit
> access as a bonus.
>
> But the workflow is not set in stone, we as Emacs developers can choose
> our own.
I understand, but that doesn't address my concerns. However, this
particular aspect of GitLab is not a major one, I guess we will see
when we get to that.
Thanks.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-05-10 12:54 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 284+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-03-17 2:17 bug#34889: [RFE] Migration to gitlab Konstantin Kharlamov
2019-03-17 3:01 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2019-03-17 3:34 ` bug#34889: " Konstantin Kharlamov
2019-03-17 8:20 ` Tim Cross
2019-03-17 9:51 ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-17 11:16 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2019-03-17 18:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-19 0:52 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-03-19 1:43 ` Glenn Morris
2019-03-19 1:50 ` Glenn Morris
2019-03-20 2:28 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-19 7:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-19 7:27 ` Philippe Vaucher
2019-03-19 8:47 ` Tadeus Prastowo
2019-03-19 12:31 ` Philippe Vaucher
2019-03-19 12:46 ` Tadeus Prastowo
2019-03-19 11:03 ` Ergus
2019-03-19 7:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-19 14:13 ` Dmitry Gutov
[not found] ` <message from DmitryGutovon Tue>
2019-03-19 18:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-19 21:59 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2019-03-20 6:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-20 6:56 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2019-03-20 7:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-21 8:28 ` Philippe Vaucher
2019-03-21 9:02 ` Tadeus Prastowo
2019-03-21 9:48 ` Philippe Vaucher
2019-03-21 9:59 ` Tadeus Prastowo
2019-03-21 17:54 ` Philippe Vaucher
2019-03-21 19:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-04-23 21:19 ` Toon Claes
2019-04-24 7:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-04-25 7:52 ` Toon Claes
2019-03-22 10:37 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-03-22 10:56 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-22 18:52 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-03-23 0:37 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-22 11:24 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2019-03-22 12:38 ` Philippe Vaucher
2019-03-22 13:27 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2019-03-22 13:57 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-22 13:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 13:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-22 14:05 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2019-03-22 14:20 ` Teemu Likonen
2019-03-22 14:29 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-22 14:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 15:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-22 15:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 15:58 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-23 21:58 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-22 14:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-23 2:33 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-23 7:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-23 14:04 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2019-03-23 14:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-24 6:29 ` Van L
2019-03-24 11:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-24 1:44 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-22 10:01 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2019-03-22 10:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 10:34 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2019-03-22 13:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 14:36 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-03-22 14:57 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-22 17:01 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-03-22 15:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 12:43 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-03-22 13:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-22 13:30 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2019-03-22 13:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-22 16:46 ` Glenn Morris
2019-03-22 18:56 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-22 13:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 13:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-22 14:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 14:50 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-03-22 15:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 16:46 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-03-22 16:23 ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-22 16:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 16:48 ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-22 17:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 16:52 ` Glenn Morris
2019-03-22 16:57 ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-22 17:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-24 13:53 ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-24 15:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-25 16:29 ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-25 17:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-25 17:52 ` Tadeus Prastowo
2019-03-25 17:56 ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-25 17:54 ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-22 18:50 ` Glenn Morris
2019-03-22 19:00 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-03-22 17:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-04-20 23:26 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-21 5:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-04-21 7:58 ` Michael Albinus
2019-04-25 1:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-25 8:17 ` Michael Albinus
2019-04-25 1:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-25 9:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-04-25 10:35 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-25 10:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-04-25 15:01 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-25 19:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-04-25 23:16 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-26 7:52 ` Michael Albinus
2019-04-26 12:49 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-26 13:03 ` Michael Albinus
2019-04-26 8:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-04-27 1:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-27 9:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-15 2:04 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 2:30 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-05-15 5:42 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-05-15 13:45 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 14:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-16 3:57 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-05-16 13:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-16 13:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-05-16 14:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-16 14:34 ` debbugs extensions (was: [RFE] Migration to gitlab) Michael Albinus
2019-05-16 23:40 ` Noam Postavsky
2019-05-17 7:30 ` debbugs extensions Michael Albinus
2019-05-17 8:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 9:25 ` Michael Albinus
2019-05-17 10:45 ` Noam Postavsky
2019-05-15 13:37 ` [RFE] Migration to gitlab Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-16 3:54 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-04-26 8:42 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2019-04-26 19:41 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-03-20 1:02 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-03-18 1:48 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-18 2:41 ` Tim Cross
2019-03-18 13:19 ` Van L
2019-03-19 2:15 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-19 14:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-03-20 2:33 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-18 16:14 ` Karl Fogel
2019-03-17 16:48 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2019-03-17 18:05 ` Amin Bandali
2019-03-17 3:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-17 12:37 ` Philippe Vaucher
2019-03-17 13:14 ` Tadeus Prastowo
2019-03-17 13:23 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2019-03-17 13:49 ` Tadeus Prastowo
2019-03-17 14:06 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2019-03-17 14:26 ` Tadeus Prastowo
2019-03-17 15:06 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-17 16:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-17 17:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-17 17:29 ` Alex
2019-04-18 8:27 ` Toon Claes
2019-04-20 21:12 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-23 21:08 ` Toon Claes
2019-04-24 15:26 ` Alex Gramiak
2019-04-25 8:24 ` Toon Claes
2019-04-25 13:45 ` Alex Gramiak
2019-04-25 0:42 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-25 8:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-10 9:16 ` Toon Claes
2019-05-10 9:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-10 10:37 ` 조성빈
2019-05-10 12:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-10 13:09 ` 조성빈
2019-05-10 22:23 ` Alex Gramiak
2019-05-11 2:12 ` Alan Mackenzie
2019-05-11 3:47 ` 조성빈
2019-05-11 7:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-11 7:38 ` 조성빈
2019-05-11 10:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-11 13:13 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-11 13:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-11 13:57 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-11 14:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-11 19:25 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-05-11 19:25 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-05-11 19:24 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-05-11 19:22 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-05-12 15:50 ` Alan Mackenzie
2019-05-12 20:51 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-06-18 15:36 ` Simon Leinen
2019-06-25 22:38 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-06-26 18:01 ` Simon Leinen
2019-06-26 18:21 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-05-12 0:58 ` Alex Gramiak
2019-05-11 6:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-12 0:23 ` Alex Gramiak
2019-05-12 5:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-12 7:04 ` Tassilo Horn
2019-05-12 13:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 4:32 ` Tassilo Horn
2019-05-13 14:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 18:24 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-05-13 16:41 ` [OFFTOPIC] size of issue tracker (was: [RFE] Migration to gitlab) Stefan Monnier
2019-05-13 17:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 18:55 ` [OFFTOPIC] size of issue tracker Stefan Monnier
2019-05-13 18:59 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-13 19:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-13 18:59 ` Tassilo Horn
2019-05-13 20:02 ` Tassilo Horn
2019-05-13 20:11 ` Tassilo Horn
2019-05-13 20:56 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-14 8:43 ` Toon Claes
2019-05-14 19:58 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-15 7:45 ` Toon Claes
2019-05-15 14:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-15 14:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-16 17:54 ` Clemens Radermacher
2019-05-16 19:58 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-16 23:19 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-05-16 23:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-19 19:34 ` Juri Linkov
2019-05-19 20:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-19 20:46 ` Juri Linkov
2019-05-20 11:57 ` Toon Claes
2019-05-20 12:29 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-05-10 11:16 ` [RFE] Migration to gitlab Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-10 12:54 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2019-05-10 13:56 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-10 14:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-10 14:32 ` Tadeus Prastowo
2019-05-10 14:56 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-10 15:16 ` Tadeus Prastowo
2019-05-10 15:00 ` 조성빈
2019-05-10 15:26 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-05-11 12:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-11 15:37 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-05-11 15:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-11 15:57 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-05-13 8:47 ` Toon Claes
2019-05-10 16:33 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-10 20:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-10 21:12 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-11 6:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-11 6:16 ` 조성빈
2019-05-11 12:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-11 12:34 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-11 12:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-11 13:29 ` Amin Bandali
2019-05-11 13:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-11 14:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-11 14:42 ` Amin Bandali
2019-05-11 14:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-11 16:09 ` Amin Bandali
2019-05-11 14:11 ` Amin Bandali
2019-05-11 15:41 ` 조성빈
2019-05-13 9:23 ` Toon Claes
2019-05-10 21:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-10 21:56 ` Alex Gramiak
2019-05-11 6:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-11 19:19 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-05-13 1:43 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-13 1:45 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-13 14:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 18:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-13 9:03 ` Toon Claes
2019-05-13 18:22 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-14 10:23 ` EMBA enable Reply by Email (was: [RFE] Migration to gitlab) Toon Claes
2019-05-10 14:02 ` [RFE] Migration to gitlab Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-10 14:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-10 14:54 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-10 15:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-10 16:23 ` Alan Mackenzie
2019-05-12 19:09 ` Juri Linkov
2019-05-12 22:24 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-14 13:13 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-10 14:02 ` Debbugs problems (was: [RFE] Migration to gitlab) Stefan Monnier
2019-05-10 14:24 ` Debbugs problems Michael Albinus
2019-05-10 15:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 1:09 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-13 14:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 17:56 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-13 18:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 18:57 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-14 14:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 20:20 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-14 14:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-10 10:41 ` [RFE] Migration to gitlab Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-10 15:23 ` Toon Claes
2019-05-10 13:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-17 17:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
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