Re: [RFE] Migration to gitlab

[Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>]

On 10.05.2019 23:43, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>>> Yes, my point was that having to work via a Web browser will need to
>>> switch frequently between it and Emacs.  Which is an annoyance, to say
>>> the least.
>>
>> I can believe that, even if I don't really understand it.
> 
> Let me try to explain.

Before I reply to the rest, I'd like to clarify: my surprise was at the 
declared difficulty of switching between the web browser and Emacs. 
Which, by itself, is a few keypresses.

Working with the debbugs package inside Emacs also requires some 
keypresses, some context switching, and it changes the window 
configuration in the current Emacs session, which is also a cost.

> In any editing environment that is not Emacs I lack many features that
> make my work significantly more efficient.  I miss the almost instant
> completion with M-/ (since I have the Emacs manuals and the TAGS
> tables loaded into Emacs at all times, all the symbols are instantly
> found, and I seldom if ever need to type long names like
> mark_window_display_accurate_1).  I miss my abbrevs (which also allow
> me to fix some of my more frequent typos, or type stuff like "naïve" o
> "façade" without switching keyboard).  I miss the convenience of being
> able to jump to any function/macro/typedef with just "C-u M-."  (or
> even just M-. if I'm in a code buffer).  I miss the multi-buffer
> search capabilities and Grep.  I miss a more-or-less immediate access
> to the Git repository.  I miss the capability to apply a patch which
> I'm looking at, and be able to compile the result right after that,
> right from the editor.

Out of these, I still use Emacs for more or less everything but abbrevs 
and word completion. IOW, for everything except writing prose, and I 
still might copy-paste some snippets of code or text between it and the 
web browser or the email client.

Writing text in something other than Emacs is not particularly 
enjoyable, but turns out, certain kinds of text are 
fetched/rendered/displayed better in other tools. And you generally have 
to edit the said kinds of text in the same tools that you're reading 
them in. In particular, after a few years of trying Gnus for email, I 
went back to Thunderbird, losing with that all the benefits of 
everything-inside-Emacs email workflow. So the use of web browser 
doesn't make it worse (and makes certain other things better).

> Instead, GitLab wants me to use the Web browser for most of these.

As per above, I disagree.

> This means the Web browser now becomes a very important program for
> me, I need to start learning it much more than I bothered until now, I
> need to keep it updated at all times, I need to customize it (more
> things to learn and try), etc.

That is true, of course. Alas, the contemporary Internet makes browsers 
quite indispensable.

>> Anyway, IIRC your current stance on that issue is that we'll need an
>> Emacs-based client anyway, even just for the issues tracker.
> 
> I don't have a "stance".  My personal preference is to do as much as
> possible from within Emacs, certainly any significant text/source code
> editing related to Emacs maintenance.  I would be very unhappy if
> forced instead to use a text-editing widget of a browser, and its
> rudimentary email capabilities.

Speaking of email capabilities, GitLab does offer some improvements, 
such as reliable subscription to discussions, as well as being able to 
unsubscribe. And, when used correctly, no duplicate emails are going to 
arrive. The "from" email address in its messages might look weird, but 
it serves a purpose.

> Two possible ways of working with an issue tracker that don't require
> me to switch from Emacs are: (1) email and (2) an Emacs front-end.
> Either one, or even a combination of them, will, for me, be much
> better than a pure Web UI.

To be fair, the GitLab documentation, as well as Salsa FAQ (see my 
another message), give the impression that most operations *are* 
possible to do via email.

>> Click on one of them and choose the last item: Custom. You will then be
>> able to choose the events to get notifications for.
>>
>> MR reassignments are in that list.
> 
> I cannot see it, because I cannot log in.  Are there only 2
> possibilities: all or nothing?  I do want to see reassignments to
> myself.

I'm not sure, but your question is very reasonable. Maybe it already 
works like we'd expect (e.g. the configuration affects all issues in 
general, but the issues where you're subscribed directly, either 
manually or by a mention, will send all notifications).

We could ask someone or just try it out.

>> Here's also the same information on the API level:
>> https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/api/notification_settings.html
> 
> Where is each value described?  The names are not descriptive enough,
> and I couldn't find any details about them.  Did I miss something?

You can search the documentation or ask. I think (as a person familiar 
with GitLab) that all names are quite descriptive.

The configuration page inside your GitLab profile (one I've linked to) 
has slightly different, maybe easier to understand descriptions.

>> Not sure if that list is exhaustive, or if there are emails we'd want to
>> configure off but cannot. That would, again, be something to ask the
>> GitLab developers for.
> 
> If there's no more detailed documentation, I think we should ask them
> now what does exist and what is possible to have given some small
> effort.

Maybe Toon could ask, or answer the question himself.

>>> Email filters are the last resort in my book.  It would also be in
>>> yours, if you considered a possibility to work via email.
>>
>> But I already do, here.
> 
> I never needed to set up any filters.  Never.  It sounds very wrong to
> me that I need to set up a filter to defend myself against my own
> project.

Well, I routinely get duplicate emails because I'm both subscribed to 
emacs-devel and the bug tracker, and also get Cc'd. I ignore that, but 
some people suggested technical solutions.

>> No, I'm suggesting to use it as a sandbox at first. Post some random
>> issues, close them, reopen them, write some comments, receive comments
>> from others, respond to them over email, etc, and see how well that
>> works, and what the main problems are.
>>
>> To post a new issue, you can navigate to
>> https://emba.gnu.org/emacs/emacs/issues and click "New issue". This also
>> requires registration (at least, for now (**)).
> 
> I will try to find time for this, but it won't happen soon: there are
> several urgent tasks on my plate.  Perhaps someone else could do that
> and post the experiences.

Everybody is welcome to try and report. I've opened one issue, but I 
can't really test everything by myself.