Re: Proposal for an improved `help-for-help'

[Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>]

On 25.04.2021 13:38, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
>> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2021 13:20:00 +0300
>>
>> On 25.04.2021 10:26, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>>>> Perhaps the easiest fix would be to handle Delete same as Backspace here.
>>>> Yes, that could alleviate the problem in this particular case.
>>> Please don't, that would be a horribly wrong change.
>>
>> I have described an obvious problem: Emacs says press DEL to scroll, the
>> user presses Del on their keyboard, and Emacs exits instead.
> 
> I'm not opposed to finding a solution, I just don't think blindly
> replacing each DEL with Backspace is a good solution.

That's not what I suggested there.

> We could mention Backspace in the text there, or we could add
> PgUp/PgDn, for example

Either/both would be an improvement.

In the graphical Emacs, at least, we could print <backspace> there 
instead of DEL. That should be unambiguous.

>> All that in a Help interface, which is supposed to help newbies. Not
>> grizzled veterans.
> 
> You may be surprised to learn that I use that command quite often.

Not really.

But still, the Help interface shouldn't be primarily targeted at people 
who know most of that stuff already.

I have tried to describe the situation with DEL as I understand it in 
another email, and probably got it only half right. After using Emacs 
for a decade and contributing code for a large part of it.

> And in any case, we are not going to make veterans, grizzled or not,
> unlearn what they have learned long ago, I hope.

Not everything in Emacs is perfect. Sometimes an improvement justifies a 
breaking change.

>> It's a real problem, if you want people to actually use this feature.
>>
>>   > Like making C-f move backwards.
>>
>> If C-f never did anything in a certain interface, and doing this would
>> help usability, why not.
> 
> But DEL does do something.  And so does Delete.

Abort? That isn't really "doing anything".

And aborting is even less semantic for that key than duplicating Backspace.