unofficial mirror of emacs-devel@gnu.org 
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, dgutov@yandex.ru
Subject: Re: Proposal for an improved `help-for-help'
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 15:45:51 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YG8lL2sJD2Lrww2+@ACM> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83tuog95a6.fsf@gnu.org>

On Thu, Apr 08, 2021 at 18:15:13 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 15:02:47 +0000
> > Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,
> >   emacs-devel@gnu.org
> > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>

> > > "foreign" implies a specific point of reference.

> > So does "international", used as it is here.

International means "between nations", as in an "international
conference", an "internation railway line", .....  It does not mean
"foreign" or "Non-USA".

> Really?  I though i18n, l10n, and the like are established terminology
> nowadays.

Yes, they are correct usage.  "Internationalisation" means "make
something usable in lots of nations".

For example:

>   https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/intl/international-support

That usage means "foreign", i.e. "non-USA".  It is not intended to
support people who work in two or more nations, for example.

Surely we can do better than Microsoft, here.

> There's also "multilingual" and m17n, but I thought it was less known.
> However, maybe we should consider something like "Multilingual Help"?

Why?  Nobody wants "multilingual help" - at least not usually.  We each
seek help in, if possible, our own language.  We're not talking about
helping people who speak several languages, or for translation services,
we're talking about help in languages which aren't English.  Why can't
we just say that?

We can't hide for long that the single "native" language in Emacs is
(American) English.  Why should we try?  What's wrong with
"Non-English"?  It says exactly what's meant, and surely is unlikely to
cause offence.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).



  reply	other threads:[~2021-04-08 15:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 188+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-02-21 12:06 Proposal for an improved `help-for-help' Stefan Kangas
2021-02-21 16:46 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-21 17:31   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-21 18:17     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-21 17:42 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 18:18   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-21 19:49   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-24  1:40   ` Consistent face for keys in *Help* and `substitute-command-keys' Stefan Kangas
2021-02-24  2:24     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-24  4:44       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-24 22:01         ` Drew Adams
2021-02-25  1:25           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-25  6:43             ` Drew Adams
2021-02-25 15:06               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-25 16:22               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-24 14:00     ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-24 16:35       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-24 19:09         ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-25  2:11           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-24 14:29     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-24 16:46     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-25  2:26       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-25 14:28         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-25 16:45           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-25 18:25             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-25 18:48               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-25 19:11                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-25 19:47                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-25 20:32                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-04  6:24                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-04 14:00                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-05 16:18                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-05 17:07                             ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-03-05 17:58                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-06 16:44                                 ` Drew Adams
2021-03-06 17:04                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-06 17:39                                     ` Drew Adams
2021-03-05 18:58                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-05 19:28                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-05 20:15                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-05 20:39                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-05 20:52                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-05 21:43                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-06  7:33                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-06 16:25                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-06 17:32                                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-06 18:28                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-07  3:03                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-07  6:45                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-07  7:26                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-07  7:42                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-08  9:17                                               ` Juri Linkov
2021-03-08 11:10                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-08 17:43                                                   ` Juri Linkov
2021-03-10  1:38                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-10 17:16                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2021-03-10 19:35                                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-10 19:50                                                           ` Juri Linkov
2021-03-10 19:59                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-11  0:46                                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-11  3:09                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-11  6:25                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-11 13:25                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-11 13:59                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-13 14:11                                                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-11  6:05                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-13 14:27                                                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-13 15:16                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-13 15:59                                                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-11  0:45                                                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-15  9:19                                                               ` Juri Linkov
2021-03-16  2:37                                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-16 23:20                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-08 15:39                                                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-03-08 16:40                                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-08 17:43                                                     ` Juri Linkov
2021-03-09  7:38                                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-09  9:05                                                         ` Juri Linkov
2021-02-25 19:14                 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-25 19:44             ` martin rudalics
2021-02-24 16:51     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-25  1:56       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-25 14:24         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 17:45 ` Proposal for an improved `help-for-help' Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 18:20   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-21 18:48   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-21 19:19     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 20:04       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-21 20:16         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 23:27           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-22 16:12             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-13 16:26     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-14  2:37       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-03-14 23:05       ` Drew Adams
2021-03-14 23:53         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-15  1:54           ` Drew Adams
2021-04-07 15:18       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-07 16:10         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-07 22:54           ` Howard Melman
2021-04-08  7:15             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-08 12:57               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-08 13:35           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-08 13:50             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-08 15:27               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-08 15:34                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-08 17:16                   ` Howard Melman
2021-04-08 22:52                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-09  6:23                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-08 14:08             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-04-08 14:50               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-08 15:02                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-04-08 15:15                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-08 15:45                     ` Alan Mackenzie [this message]
2021-04-08 15:51                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-08 17:55             ` Howard Melman
2021-04-09 15:42               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-08 18:48             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-08 23:23               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-08 23:35                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-08 23:41                   ` Howard Melman
2021-04-07 16:42         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-04-07 18:33         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-07 19:50           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-07 22:56           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-07 23:26             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-08 12:42               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-07 19:55         ` Juri Linkov
2021-04-24 13:21         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-24 13:27           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-24 16:44           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-24 23:48             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-25  7:26               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-25  9:30                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-25 10:25                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-25 11:49                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-25 12:14                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-25 16:26                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-04-25 10:20                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-25 10:38                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-25 10:46                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-25 11:23                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-25 15:18                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-25 15:28                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-30 17:39                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-30 20:02                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-30 20:36                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-30 22:09                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-05-02 10:23                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-05-02 18:57                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-30 17:34                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-25 12:47                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-25 13:05                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-25 13:09                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-25 16:22                         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-04-25 16:30                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-25 13:16                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-25 13:24                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-25 13:32                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-25 13:44                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-25 13:58                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-25 11:12               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-25 15:47               ` DEL vs Backspace (was: Proposal for an improved `help-for-help') Stefan Monnier
2021-04-25 16:49                 ` DEL vs Backspace Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-25 17:25                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-25 17:50                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-26  0:45                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-26 11:45                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-26 11:48                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-26  4:41                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-04-27 20:56               ` Proposal for an improved `help-for-help' Stefan Kangas
2021-04-27 23:15                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-24 17:18           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-24 20:32             ` Juri Linkov
2021-04-25 10:00             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-07 17:56       ` Howard Melman
2021-04-07 18:21         ` John Yates
2021-04-07 22:56           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-07 22:41         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-07 23:15           ` Howard Melman
2021-04-08 12:57             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-21 19:27 ` Howard Melman
2021-02-22 15:25   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-22 10:01 ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-22 15:25   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-25 15:11     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-25 15:34       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-25 18:43         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-25 14:06   ` Dmitry Gutov

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=YG8lL2sJD2Lrww2+@ACM \
    --to=acm@muc.de \
    --cc=dgutov@yandex.ru \
    --cc=eliz@gnu.org \
    --cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
    --cc=stefan@marxist.se \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).