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From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: "'Jason Spiro'" <jasonspiro4@gmail.com>,
	<1305@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>,
	<control@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>
Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bellinstead
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 19:57:59 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <009901c9421f$5bd0a6b0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <c241693f0811081750x6abb7237hc663bee09af55e@mail.gmail.com>

> All code that currently beeps should use visual bell instead
> 
> > Oh, that would be a clear "no", indeed.  Of course we'd 
> > replace it with
> > the visible-bell (and I suspect that OP also intended it that way).
> 
> I didn't intend it that way:  the visual bell is also annoying, though
> less annoying than the audible bell.  But fair enough.  :)  Retitling
> accordingly.

IIUC, that sounds terrible, to me. Today, one can simply turn off (or down) the
sound at the computer level and have zero distraction from the bell. That is not
unusual for users who share an office - it's not unlike turning down the volume
of a telephone ring.

This possibility of turning off or down the bell at the computer level should
not be removed. If Emacs just replaces the bell by the visible bell everywhere,
that will introduce lots of distraction. And unlike the bell, which has variable
volume, the visible bell is all-or-none.

What's wrong with leaving things as they have been since day one? Users who want
to turn off the bell can always do so, within Emacs or otherwise. Users should
be able to easily get any of these behaviors: (1) bell only, (2) visible bell
only, (3) bell and visible bell, (4) nothing. 

We should not systematically replace the bell by the visible bell just because
someone found the bell to be annoying. It's not difficult to turn off. Users
have been living with this option since the beginning.

Bell and visible bell should not really be regarded as replacements for each
other, in any case. They are two different ways to attract a user's attention.

And one is *not* less annoying than the other. At least not for all users in all
contexts. Each can be very annoying.

If you think there are currently too many places where Emacs beeps, try instead
to remove some of those beeps on a case-by-case basis. Don't just replace
beeping with flashing.







  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-11-09  3:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 180+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-11-09  1:50 bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bell instead Jason Spiro
2008-11-09  2:00 ` Processed: " Emacs bug Tracking System
2008-11-09  3:57 ` Drew Adams [this message]
2008-11-09  4:08   ` bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bellinstead Jason Spiro
2008-11-09 19:17     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-09 19:04   ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-09 19:19     ` Drew Adams
2008-11-09 20:00       ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-10  2:07         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-11-10  6:28           ` Drew Adams
2008-11-11 21:20             ` bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should usevisual bellinstead Drew Adams
2008-11-10  8:34           ` bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bellinstead Lennart Borgman
2008-11-10 15:22             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-11-10 16:58               ` Lennart Borgman
2008-11-11 18:38                 ` Jason A. Spiro
2008-11-10 22:17           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-11-11 18:50             ` Jason Spiro
2008-11-12  3:33               ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-11-13  7:41                 ` Jason Spiro
2021-04-17  6:06           ` bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bell instead Stefan Kangas
2021-04-17  7:03             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-17 11:54             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-17 12:31               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-17 12:39                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-17 12:55                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-17 13:07                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-17 13:13                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-17 13:32                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-17 13:39                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-17 14:05                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-17 14:08                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 10:41                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 12:22                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 13:32                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 15:23                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 15:42                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-17 19:17                           ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-04-17 17:01                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-17 20:59                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-17 21:09                           ` Michael Welsh Duggan
2021-04-17 21:17                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-17 21:52                               ` Michael Welsh Duggan
2021-04-17 22:04                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-17 23:30                                   ` bug#1305: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-04-18 10:38                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 12:22                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 12:36                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 13:10                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 13:15                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 15:22                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 15:28                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-18 15:38                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 18:34                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-19 12:37                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-19 13:04                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-19 13:26                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-25 18:06                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-25 20:06                                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-19 13:30                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 17:02                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 17:13                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-18 18:02                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 18:35                                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 18:45                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 19:04                                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 19:19                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 15:06                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-18 15:11                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 15:23                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-18 15:35                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-19 12:56                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-19 13:12                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-25 18:03                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-25 18:52                                                     ` Andreas Schwab
2021-04-25 19:01                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-25 19:18                                                         ` Andreas Schwab
2021-04-25 19:33                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 16:07                                             ` Andreas Schwab
2021-04-19 12:38                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 16:12                                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 16:20                                               ` Andreas Schwab
2021-04-19 12:39                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 15:18                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-18 15:26                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-18 15:37                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 16:27                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 16:38                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 17:05                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-18 17:14                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-19 12:33                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-19 12:40                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-19 12:47                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-19 13:01                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-19 13:16                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-19 13:26                                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-19 13:37                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-19 14:41                                                           ` Alan Third
2021-04-20 14:21                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-20 18:27                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-20 19:19                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21  1:16                                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-21  6:47                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 13:11                                                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-21 14:05                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 14:12                                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-21 14:30                                                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-21 14:35                                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 14:45                                                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-21 14:53                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 21:27                                                                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-21 14:33                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-21 14:51                                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-21 15:14                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-25 18:12                                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-25 21:03                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-27  1:07                                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-27  9:54                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-27 15:15                                                                                   ` bug#1305: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-04-27 23:21                                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-28 10:08                                                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-28 13:12                                                                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-29 16:50                                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-29 19:48                                                                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-29 20:17                                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-29 21:46                                                                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-29 23:23                                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-29 23:35                                                                                                   ` bug#1305: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-04-29 23:52                                                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-05-01  7:50                                                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-05-01 14:13                                                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2021-05-01 16:55                                                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-05-01 14:28                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-05-01 16:48                                                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-05-02 10:44                                                                                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-30  7:09                                                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-30 22:22                                                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-30 23:19                                                                                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-30 23:28                                                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-05-01  0:00                                                                                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-05-01  0:57                                                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-05-01  7:50                                                                                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-05-01  0:05                                                                                                           ` bug#1305: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-05-01  1:08                                                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-05-01  2:05                                                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2021-04-29 23:36                                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-30  7:13                                                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-29 22:38                                                                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-29 23:11                                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-30  6:58                                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-30 13:08                                                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-30  5:05                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-30  6:51                                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-30  7:06                                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-30  7:27                                                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-30  8:03                                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-30  8:41                                                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 15:08                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-21 15:18                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-21 16:14                                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 17:27                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-21 20:26                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 22:03                                                                                 ` bug#1305: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-04-21 14:45                                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-21 16:01                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 17:34                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-21 20:22                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-19 12:51                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-19 14:03                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-18 15:27                                         ` bug#1305: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-04-18  6:30                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-18 11:10                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 11:38                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-18 15:14                             ` bug#1305: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-04-17 13:16                     ` Drew Adams
2021-04-17 16:59                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2008-11-10 21:25 ` Xavier Maillard
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-11-17  7:32 bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bellinstead Tim Connors
2008-11-17  7:37 ` Jason Spiro
2008-11-17  8:01   ` Sven Joachim
2008-11-17 14:52   ` Stefan Monnier

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