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From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@heytings.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 1305@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se,
	jasonspiro4@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca
Subject: bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bell instead
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 11:10:45 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <c40b32b1f8ed9adb6c08@heytings.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83a6pwumt1.fsf@gnu.org>


>
> Emacs beeps a lot if you do things that make it beep.  Like try to go 
> where no one has gone before.
>
> By contrast, other apps beep when they see fit.  A MUA plays sounds when 
> a new email arrives; the desktop beeps when it has some notification 
> that it thinks you must see and act upon, etc. etc.
>
> I don't see how Emacs is the odd one out here.
>

It just feels awkward by today's standards.

Emacs beeps when there is in fact no good reason to beep: whenever you 
type C-g, when isearch doesn't find a match, when you press C-p at BOB or 
C-n at EOB, when you press C-v or M-v too much (which can in fact be, for 
a short enough buffer: whenever you type C-v or M-v), when you press a 
self-inserting key in a read-only buffer, and so forth.  There is no good 
reason to beep, because (1) the echo area already contains an explanation 
about what happened, and (2) the error is not important enough to call the 
user's attention, nothing serious can happen if the user doesn't see it. 
In such cases flashing the echo area would be more than enough.

By contrast, Emacs doesn't beep when there would perhaps be a good reason 
to beep, for example when yes-or-no-p/y-or-n-p are called.

>
> And we are bikeshedding again: the opinions are clearly divided, and 
> Emacs lets each one of us customize this feature as they see fit.  So 
> why is arguing about the default so important, when there's clearly no 
> consensus?
>

We are discussing what a better default could be; in another thread the 
discussion is about a better default for the 'match' face.  Is discussing 
the default UX useless because everyone can customize everything?





  reply	other threads:[~2021-04-18 11:10 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 176+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-11-09  1:50 bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bell instead Jason Spiro
2008-11-09  2:00 ` Processed: " Emacs bug Tracking System
2008-11-09  3:57 ` bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bellinstead Drew Adams
2008-11-09  4:08   ` Jason Spiro
2008-11-09 19:17     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-09 19:04   ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-09 19:19     ` Drew Adams
2008-11-09 20:00       ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-10  2:07         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-11-10  6:28           ` Drew Adams
2008-11-11 21:20             ` bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should usevisual bellinstead Drew Adams
2008-11-10  8:34           ` bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bellinstead Lennart Borgman
2008-11-10 15:22             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-11-10 16:58               ` Lennart Borgman
2008-11-11 18:38                 ` Jason A. Spiro
2008-11-10 22:17           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-11-11 18:50             ` Jason Spiro
2008-11-12  3:33               ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-11-13  7:41                 ` Jason Spiro
2021-04-17  6:06           ` bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bell instead Stefan Kangas
2021-04-17  7:03             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-17 11:54             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-17 12:31               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-17 12:39                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-17 12:55                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-17 13:07                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-17 13:13                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-17 13:32                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-17 13:39                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-17 14:05                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-17 14:08                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 10:41                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 12:22                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 13:32                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 15:23                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 15:42                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-17 19:17                           ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-04-17 17:01                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-17 20:59                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-17 21:09                           ` Michael Welsh Duggan
2021-04-17 21:17                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-17 21:52                               ` Michael Welsh Duggan
2021-04-17 22:04                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-17 23:30                                   ` bug#1305: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-04-18 10:38                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 12:22                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 12:36                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 13:10                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 13:15                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 15:22                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 15:28                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-18 15:38                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 18:34                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-19 12:37                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-19 13:04                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-19 13:26                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-25 18:06                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-25 20:06                                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-19 13:30                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 17:02                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 17:13                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-18 18:02                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 18:35                                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 18:45                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 19:04                                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 19:19                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 15:06                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-18 15:11                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 15:23                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-18 15:35                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-19 12:56                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-19 13:12                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-25 18:03                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-25 18:52                                                     ` Andreas Schwab
2021-04-25 19:01                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-25 19:18                                                         ` Andreas Schwab
2021-04-25 19:33                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 16:07                                             ` Andreas Schwab
2021-04-19 12:38                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 16:12                                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 16:20                                               ` Andreas Schwab
2021-04-19 12:39                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-18 15:18                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-18 15:26                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-18 15:37                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 16:27                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-18 16:38                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-18 17:05                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-18 17:14                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-19 12:33                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-19 12:40                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-19 12:47                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-19 13:01                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-19 13:16                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-19 13:26                                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-19 13:37                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-19 14:41                                                           ` Alan Third
2021-04-20 14:21                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-20 18:27                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-20 19:19                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21  1:16                                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-21  6:47                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 13:11                                                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-21 14:05                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 14:12                                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-21 14:30                                                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-21 14:35                                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 14:45                                                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-21 14:53                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 21:27                                                                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-21 14:33                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-21 14:51                                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-21 15:14                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-25 18:12                                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-25 21:03                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-27  1:07                                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-27  9:54                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-27 15:15                                                                                   ` bug#1305: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-04-27 23:21                                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-28 10:08                                                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-28 13:12                                                                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-29 16:50                                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-29 19:48                                                                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-29 20:17                                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-29 21:46                                                                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-29 23:23                                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-29 23:35                                                                                                   ` bug#1305: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-04-29 23:52                                                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-05-01  7:50                                                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-05-01 14:13                                                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2021-05-01 16:55                                                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-05-01 14:28                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-05-01 16:48                                                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-05-02 10:44                                                                                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-30  7:09                                                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-30 22:22                                                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-30 23:19                                                                                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-30 23:28                                                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-05-01  0:00                                                                                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-05-01  0:57                                                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-05-01  7:50                                                                                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-05-01  0:05                                                                                                           ` bug#1305: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-05-01  1:08                                                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-05-01  2:05                                                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2021-04-29 23:36                                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-30  7:13                                                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-29 22:38                                                                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-29 23:11                                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-30  6:58                                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-30 13:08                                                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-30  5:05                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-30  6:51                                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-30  7:06                                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-30  7:27                                                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-30  8:03                                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-30  8:41                                                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 15:08                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-21 15:18                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-21 16:14                                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 17:27                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-21 20:26                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 22:03                                                                                 ` bug#1305: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-04-21 14:45                                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-04-21 16:01                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-21 17:34                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-21 20:22                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-04-19 12:51                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-19 14:03                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-18 15:27                                         ` bug#1305: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-04-18  6:30                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-18 11:10                             ` Gregory Heytings [this message]
2021-04-18 11:38                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-18 15:14                             ` bug#1305: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-04-17 13:16                     ` Drew Adams
2021-04-17 16:59                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2008-11-10 21:25 ` Xavier Maillard

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