From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bellinstead Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 19:57:59 -0800 Message-ID: <009901c9421f$5bd0a6b0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> References: Reply-To: Drew Adams , 1305@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1226203822 7894 80.91.229.12 (9 Nov 2008 04:10:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 04:10:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: "'Jason Spiro'" , <1305@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>, Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 09 05:11:25 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Kz1e0-00056U-FE for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 05:11:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42500 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Kz1cs-0007RZ-Oh for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2008 23:10:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Kz1co-0007Qw-NS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2008 23:10:10 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Kz1cn-0007Qb-VZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2008 23:10:10 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=41714 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Kz1cn-0007QS-NN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2008 23:10:09 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:52493) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Kz1cn-0006vV-5h for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2008 23:10:09 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mA94A6K7027940; Sat, 8 Nov 2008 20:10:06 -0800 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id mA9456Bi026651; Sat, 8 Nov 2008 20:05:06 -0800 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 04:05:06 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 1305 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 1305-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B1305.122620309224477 (code B ref 1305); Sun, 09 Nov 2008 04:05:06 +0000 Original-Received: (at 1305) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 9 Nov 2008 03:58:12 +0000 Original-Received: from rgminet12.oracle.com (rcsinet12.oracle.com [148.87.113.124]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mA93w32i024469; Sat, 8 Nov 2008 19:58:04 -0800 Original-Received: from acsinet13.oracle.com (acsinet13.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by rgminet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id mA93vo2E016882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 9 Nov 2008 03:57:51 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt700.oracle.com (acsmt700.oracle.com [141.146.40.70]) by acsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id mA93w2Ti018961; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 03:58:04 GMT Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.23.165.218) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 03:57:52 +0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AclCEGDvPq9Lfh+nSEyZeDp52VxBfwACwenw X-Source-IP: acsmt700.oracle.com [141.146.40.70] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010202.49165FC2.005F:SCFSTAT928724,ss=1,fgs=0 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 3 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 23:10:10 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:22239 Archived-At: > All code that currently beeps should use visual bell instead > > > Oh, that would be a clear "no", indeed. Of course we'd > > replace it with > > the visible-bell (and I suspect that OP also intended it that way). > > I didn't intend it that way: the visual bell is also annoying, though > less annoying than the audible bell. But fair enough. :) Retitling > accordingly. IIUC, that sounds terrible, to me. Today, one can simply turn off (or down) the sound at the computer level and have zero distraction from the bell. That is not unusual for users who share an office - it's not unlike turning down the volume of a telephone ring. This possibility of turning off or down the bell at the computer level should not be removed. If Emacs just replaces the bell by the visible bell everywhere, that will introduce lots of distraction. And unlike the bell, which has variable volume, the visible bell is all-or-none. What's wrong with leaving things as they have been since day one? Users who want to turn off the bell can always do so, within Emacs or otherwise. Users should be able to easily get any of these behaviors: (1) bell only, (2) visible bell only, (3) bell and visible bell, (4) nothing. We should not systematically replace the bell by the visible bell just because someone found the bell to be annoying. It's not difficult to turn off. Users have been living with this option since the beginning. Bell and visible bell should not really be regarded as replacements for each other, in any case. They are two different ways to attract a user's attention. And one is *not* less annoying than the other. At least not for all users in all contexts. Each can be very annoying. If you think there are currently too many places where Emacs beeps, try instead to remove some of those beeps on a case-by-case basis. Don't just replace beeping with flashing.