From: "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com>
Subject: Re: Customizing key bindings (was: Re: [CVS] f7, f8 bound..)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 14:17:06 +0000 (UTC) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <m17ngOY-000IeIC@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <rjptvq6j9g.fsf@zuse.dina.kvl.dk> (message from Per Abrahamsen on Sat, 07 Sep 2002 15:07:07 +0200)
Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> wrote:
The problem is the mindset that making complex applications written
by programmers for programmers easy to configure, is simply a
matter of providing a "friendly" interface to the existing
configuration mechanisms. This mindset is shared by most
traditional Unix developers (and probably Lisp developers too, but
who cares).
However, this assumes that being "easy to configure" is merely a
matter of "syntactical sugar", that is, provide a form based
interface to the old text based configuration files.
Please explain in more detail. I cannot infer your implications.
To me, the current customize is "syntactical sugar". That is to say,
it creates, edits, and writes expressions to my .emacs file for two
functions, `custom-set-faces', and `custom-set-variables'.
I can edit and evaluate those function calls in my .emacs, or I can
edit and evaluate them using a `Customize' buffer. Either way, I end
up with expression in my .emacs file.
If you want to make configuration easy to the end-users, you need
to start with their needs, and not with the old textual
configuration files.
What are the implications of this?
After all, "the old textual configuration files" are not the `surface
representation' that an end-user ever sees; they are a `deep
structure' that a programmer sees, if he or she wishes. (To the
programmer, of course, they are a `surface representation' of the
underlying bits.)
The configuration *must* be saved somehow. Otherwise, the
customization did not `take hold'. Why not save it in a format that a
programmer can readily edit? (And in the case of Emacs, in a format
that the existing virtual machine can readily evaluate?)
--
Robert J. Chassell bob@rattlesnake.com bob@gnu.org
Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com
Free Software Foundation http://www.gnu.org GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-09-07 14:17 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 221+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-08-23 14:15 [CVS] f7, f8 bound D. Goel
2002-08-25 23:16 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-25 22:39 ` D. Goel
2002-08-26 15:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-08-27 2:02 ` Miles Bader
2002-08-27 8:56 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-27 8:55 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-27 8:55 ` Juanma Barranquero
2002-08-27 10:32 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-27 10:01 ` Juanma Barranquero
2002-08-27 11:55 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-27 11:07 ` Juanma Barranquero
2002-08-27 16:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-08-28 1:12 ` Miles Bader
2002-08-28 9:33 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-28 8:54 ` Miles Bader
2002-08-28 9:09 ` Juanma Barranquero
2002-08-28 10:58 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-28 10:21 ` Juanma Barranquero
2002-08-28 9:09 ` Miles Bader
2002-08-28 10:47 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-28 14:13 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-08-29 14:35 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-29 17:24 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-09-08 23:02 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-09-09 10:49 ` Francesco Potorti`
2002-09-09 13:43 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-09 19:14 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-09 23:34 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-10 21:50 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-09-09 23:45 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-09-10 16:36 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-10 12:17 ` Francesco Potorti`
2002-09-10 23:16 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-09-11 9:03 ` Francesco Potorti`
2002-08-28 13:37 ` Francesco Potorti`
2002-08-28 14:28 ` Kai Großjohann
2002-08-28 14:41 ` Francesco Potorti`
2002-08-28 23:33 ` Richard Stallman
2002-08-29 9:25 ` Kai Großjohann
2002-08-30 6:09 ` Richard Stallman
2002-08-30 14:48 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-30 23:55 ` Miles Bader
2002-08-31 11:21 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-01 13:14 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-01 14:22 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-01 14:37 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-02 17:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-09-02 17:54 ` Kai Großjohann
2002-09-02 23:24 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-09-03 10:55 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-03 13:02 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-03 13:53 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-03 15:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-09-03 17:31 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-03 19:27 ` Andreas Schwab
2002-09-03 22:56 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-03 23:53 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-04 11:59 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-09-04 22:35 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-03 23:23 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-09-04 10:31 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-04 15:30 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-09-04 22:25 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-05 13:00 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-09-05 10:00 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-05 14:59 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-09-05 16:18 ` Francesco Potorti`
2002-09-05 19:13 ` D. Goel
2002-09-05 15:05 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-09-05 18:03 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-04 22:00 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-05 10:15 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-06 1:16 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-06 10:07 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-06 22:19 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-07 12:40 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-06 17:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-09-06 22:21 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-07 0:53 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-09-07 0:32 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-07 7:59 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-07 10:28 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-09 13:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-09-09 15:45 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-09 23:34 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-07 10:28 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-07 7:45 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-07 14:08 ` Customizing key bindings Alex Schroeder
2002-09-07 23:43 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-09 8:05 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-09 9:19 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-09 12:20 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-09 14:09 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-09 15:23 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-09 17:25 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-09-09 14:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-09-09 23:34 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-09 23:33 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-10 10:29 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-11 1:40 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-10 17:57 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-11 3:05 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-11 8:52 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-09 0:21 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-09 1:52 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-09 23:33 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-05 2:47 ` [CVS] f7, f8 bound Richard Stallman
2002-09-05 9:39 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-04 14:23 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-03 14:12 ` Kai Großjohann
2002-09-03 15:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-09-03 15:17 ` Kai Großjohann
2002-09-02 14:53 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-02 16:40 ` Customizing key bindings (was: Re: [CVS] f7, f8 bound..) Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-02 21:55 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-03 12:27 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-03 22:35 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-03 22:49 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-04 0:45 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-04 10:00 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-05 2:47 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-05 9:18 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-06 4:01 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-06 9:51 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-04 15:11 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-09-05 9:26 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-06 4:01 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-06 22:30 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-09-07 14:12 ` Customizing key bindings Alex Schroeder
2002-09-05 18:03 ` Customizing key bindings (was: Re: [CVS] f7, f8 bound..) Richard Stallman
2002-09-05 18:35 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-06 15:10 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-05 2:46 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-05 16:17 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-06 4:01 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-07 13:50 ` Customizing key bindings Alex Schroeder
2002-09-05 16:47 ` Customizing key bindings (was: Re: [CVS] f7, f8 bound..) Kai Großjohann
2002-09-07 14:20 ` use diff-list in Emacs Alex Schroeder
2002-09-07 15:52 ` Kai Großjohann
2002-09-07 22:46 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-08 19:22 ` Kai Großjohann
2002-09-04 14:20 ` Customizing key bindings (was: Re: [CVS] f7, f8 bound..) Richard Stallman
2002-09-05 17:20 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-06 17:28 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-09-06 22:03 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-07 12:01 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-07 12:40 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-07 13:07 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-07 14:17 ` Robert J. Chassell [this message]
2002-09-07 17:48 ` What custom is and does Alex Schroeder
2002-09-07 22:57 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-09 7:49 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-07 18:58 ` Customizing key bindings (was: Re: [CVS] f7, f8 bound..) Kai Großjohann
2002-09-09 13:53 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-09-09 14:59 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-09 23:34 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-07 9:06 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-07 12:11 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-07 9:15 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-07 12:28 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-07 13:48 ` Customizing key bindings Alex Schroeder
2002-09-07 13:56 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-07 13:39 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-07 15:10 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-09 22:06 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-09 22:12 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-09 22:49 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-09 22:58 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-09-10 10:19 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-08 12:54 ` Customizing key bindings (was: Re: [CVS] f7, f8 bound..) Richard Stallman
2002-09-09 7:57 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-09 23:33 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-10 18:07 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-09-11 3:04 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-11 8:49 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-09-11 20:03 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-09 21:09 ` Alex Schroeder
[not found] ` <m2it1qqmae.fsf@primate.xs4all.nl>
2002-09-01 10:36 ` [CVS] f7, f8 bound Miles Bader
2002-09-01 13:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-09-01 13:45 ` Pavel Janík
2002-09-01 16:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-09-01 16:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-09-01 13:14 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-06 12:55 ` Francesco Potorti`
[not found] ` <m2r8geqole.fsf@primate.xs4all.nl>
2002-09-01 5:19 ` Damien Elmes
2002-09-02 0:01 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-03 0:04 ` David A. Cobb
2002-08-29 14:38 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-29 13:47 ` Francesco Potorti`
[not found] ` <m2wuq6qpai.fsf@primate.xs4all.nl>
2002-09-01 10:45 ` Miles Bader
2002-08-28 18:42 ` Edward O'Connor
2002-08-29 1:16 ` Miles Bader
2002-08-28 23:32 ` Richard Stallman
2002-08-29 1:14 ` Miles Bader
2002-08-30 6:10 ` Richard Stallman
2002-08-30 6:22 ` Miles Bader
2002-08-30 19:17 ` Richard Stallman
2002-08-31 0:40 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-31 2:16 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-01 13:15 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-02 1:23 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-02 10:22 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-09-02 9:38 ` Miles Bader
2002-09-03 13:26 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-03 14:39 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-09-04 14:21 ` Richard Stallman
2002-09-08 22:51 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-30 6:10 ` Richard Stallman
2002-08-30 14:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-08-30 19:19 ` Richard Stallman
2002-08-31 0:00 ` Miles Bader
2002-08-31 11:28 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-08-30 14:49 ` Francesco Potorti`
2002-08-31 0:33 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-31 6:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-08-29 14:42 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-30 1:05 ` Miles Bader
2002-08-30 12:07 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-08-30 6:09 ` Richard Stallman
2002-08-28 6:52 ` Richard Stallman
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