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From: Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk>
Subject: The minibuffer vs. Dialog Boxes (Re: Making XEmacs be more up-to-date)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:40:43 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <a9ovr1$gmg$2@main.gmane.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020417123512.0398e4c8@san-francisco.beasys.com> (Andy Piper's message of "Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:37:46 -0700")

Crossmailed between emacs-devel and xemacs-design.

Andy Piper <andyp@bea.com> writes:

> However, we should provide dialog boxes if people do things in a gui
> way, 

Actually, I believe the trend in HCI research is to avoid or minimize
the use of dialog boxes.  They really _are_ in the way, also in a GUI.
This doesn't mean the current (X)Emacs interface is good, it certainly
isn't intuitive to a new user.

So I think we really ought to forget about dialog boxes, and instead
concentrate on making the minibuffer interface more accesible.

Here is some suggestions:

1. Put the minibuffer in the top by default.  It is more visible
   there, and users of MSIE or Mozilla (and apparently some modern
   IDE's) will not be surprised to find an input field there.

2. Add some strong visual clue (color, animation, whatever) when focus
   change to the minibuffer.  The toolbar should probably also change
   to "relevant" buttons for the action, and for those actions that
   are relevant, a 

3. Maybe even have a dialog box (!) pointing to the minibuffer when
   activating a menu entry that traditionally pop up a dialog.  The
   box should have an "OK" and a "Don't pop up next time" button.

3b Alternatively a "novice" mode, where an arrow point to minibuffer,
   and a tooltip like message explain what is going on.  Many games
   teach their UI in that way.  (What a cool way to organize the
   standard (X)Emacs tutorial!  But I digress).

Dialog boxes are so 1980's.

       reply	other threads:[~2002-04-19 11:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 153+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <4.3.2.7.2.20020417123512.0398e4c8@san-francisco.beasys.com>
2002-04-19 11:40 ` Per Abrahamsen [this message]
     [not found] ` <rjk7r3zzk4.fsf@zuse.dina.kvl.dk>
2002-04-19 16:27   ` The minibuffer vs. Dialog Boxes (Re: Making XEmacs be more up-to-date) Brady Montz
2002-04-19 16:55   ` Andy Piper
2002-04-20 17:27   ` Richard Stallman
     [not found] ` <4.3.2.7.2.20020419095654.00bee3c0@san-francisco.beasys.com>
2002-04-19 19:01   ` Brady Montz
2002-04-20 17:28   ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]   ` <200204201728.g3KHSDW01513@aztec.santafe.edu>
2002-04-20 21:45     ` Andy Piper
2002-04-21 15:54     ` William M. Perry
     [not found] ` <m2g01rbjhi.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-19 20:28   ` Andy Piper
     [not found] ` <4.3.2.7.2.20020419132421.00bfa9d0@san-francisco.beasys.com>
2002-04-19 20:39   ` Brady Montz
2002-04-20 23:53   ` William M. Perry
     [not found] ` <m2d6wvodpt.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-19 17:00   ` Andy Piper
2002-04-20 11:03   ` Terje Bless
2002-04-20 17:27   ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]   ` <200204201727.g3KHRTg01417@aztec.santafe.edu>
2002-04-21  2:06     ` Brady Montz
     [not found]     ` <m2wuv1yfdj.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-21  6:48       ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-21  7:35         ` Brady Montz
2002-04-21 15:31           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found]           ` <87vgal3w79.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
2002-04-21 17:17             ` Brady Montz
2002-04-21 18:49             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]             ` <m2d6wtx97q.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-21 19:09               ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-22  2:58               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found]               ` <87vgak30cw.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
2002-04-22 16:54                 ` Brady Montz
     [not found]                 ` <m2elh7wu6m.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-22 19:40                   ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                   ` <7263-Mon22Apr2002224014+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-22 20:46                     ` Brady Montz
2002-04-23  4:03                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-23  6:31                       ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                       ` <87bscbysbm.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
2002-04-23  6:41                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-23 16:21                         ` Brady Montz
     [not found]                         ` <m2r8l6v108.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-23 17:09                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found]                           ` <878z7euysa.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
2002-04-23 18:20                             ` Brady Montz
2002-04-23 19:21                               ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                               ` <7263-Tue23Apr2002222135+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-23 19:56                                 ` Brady Montz
2002-04-23 23:00                       ` Michael Toomim
2002-04-24  6:09                         ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]               ` <2950-Sun21Apr2002220958+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-22 16:56                 ` Brady Montz
2002-04-21  9:01       ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-04-21 20:21         ` Simon Josefsson
     [not found]         ` <ilusn5o950a.fsf@extundo.com>
2002-04-22  8:50           ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-04-22  9:00             ` Miles Bader
     [not found]             ` <buoy9fg85ve.fsf@mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp>
2002-04-22 10:44               ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-04-22 11:12               ` Simon Josefsson
     [not found]               ` <rjk7r0ovw9.fsf@zuse.dina.kvl.dk>
2002-04-22 12:36                 ` Miles Bader
2002-04-22 22:36           ` Richard Stallman
2002-04-23 20:10       ` Tutorials and Demos (Re: " Samuel Mikes
     [not found]       ` <15557.49069.908484.860930@marvin.cubane.com>
2002-04-24  4:37         ` Tutorials and Demos Robin S. Socha
     [not found] <f01050101-1013-195C612D544F11D6B75900039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-20 11:59 ` The minibuffer vs. Dialog Boxes (Re: Making XEmacs be more up-to-date) Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] ` <7263-Sat20Apr2002145929+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-20 12:22   ` Miles Bader
2002-04-20 14:04   ` Simon Josefsson
2002-04-20 15:30     ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-20 18:59     ` Andreas Schwab
     [not found]     ` <E16ywpH-0004J0-00@fencepost.gnu.org>
2002-04-20 19:48       ` Hrvoje Niksic
     [not found]       ` <sxs8z7inobz.fsf@florida.arsdigita.de>
2002-04-21  0:56         ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21  5:41         ` Miles Bader
2002-04-21  5:57           ` Hrvoje Niksic
     [not found]           ` <sxsu1q5twz5.fsf@florida.arsdigita.de>
2002-04-21  7:24             ` Miles Bader
     [not found]             ` <87adrxo6o7.fsf@tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp>
2002-04-21 12:21               ` Robert J. Chassell
     [not found]               ` <m16zGLO-000IiIC@localhost>
2002-04-21 13:35                 ` Miles Bader
2002-04-23 11:17                 ` Kai Großjohann
2002-04-21  6:28         ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-20 19:17   ` Michael Toomim
     [not found]   ` <3CC1BEB9.9020104@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-20 19:28     ` Kyle Jones
2002-04-20 19:33     ` Nix
2002-04-20 19:51     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
     [not found]     ` <15553.49507.745094.604981@ice.wonderworks.com>
2002-04-21  0:04       ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21  3:24       ` Michael Toomim
     [not found]       ` <3CC230D1.2040106@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-21  3:46         ` Miles Bader
     [not found]     ` <87elhap2r4.fsf@lgh163a.kemisten.nu>
2002-04-21  1:09       ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21 11:37         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2002-04-21  3:28       ` Michael Toomim
     [not found]       ` <3CC231D2.6020709@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-21 11:25         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
     [not found]         ` <873cxpz436.fsf@lgh163a.kemisten.nu>
2002-04-21 15:41           ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21 17:54             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2002-04-21 17:08           ` Robert J. Chassell
     [not found]           ` <m16zKoy-000IioC@localhost>
2002-04-21 17:51             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
     [not found]   ` <87adrypnjn.fsf@tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp>
2002-04-20 19:33     ` Michael Toomim
     [not found]     ` <3CC1C275.6090009@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-20 21:26       ` Kyle Jones
     [not found]       ` <15553.56593.407791.923999@ice.wonderworks.com>
2002-04-20 21:48         ` Andy Piper
2002-04-20 23:16         ` Michael Toomim
2002-04-21  6:24       ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-20 23:58     ` Terje Bless
2002-04-20 23:48   ` Terje Bless
2002-04-20 14:12 ` Serge Wroclawski
2002-04-20 16:28 ` Brady Montz
2002-04-20 18:51   ` Matt Tucker
     [not found] <4.3.2.7.2.20020419095141.00bf8580@san-francisco.beasys.com>
2002-04-20 15:44 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-04-20 16:59   ` Andy Piper
2002-04-20 19:42   ` Hrvoje Niksic
     [not found]   ` <sxshem6nolr.fsf@florida.arsdigita.de>
2002-04-21  3:47     ` Michael Toomim
2002-04-21  8:44     ` Per Abrahamsen
     [not found] <87sn5q2mj4.fsf@amaterasu.srvr.nix>
2002-04-21  6:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <f01050101-1013-2EBD099554C511D6B75900039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-21  1:45 ` Hrvoje Niksic
     [not found] ` <sxssn5pvn7u.fsf@florida.arsdigita.de>
2002-04-21  2:10   ` Miles Bader
2002-04-21  3:21   ` Michael Toomim
2002-04-21  6:39   ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-21 15:11   ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21 17:17     ` Hrvoje Niksic
2002-04-21 19:02     ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]     ` <sxsbscdt1i3.fsf@florida.arsdigita.de>
2002-04-21 19:40       ` Michael Toomim
     [not found]       ` <3CC31593.1040001@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-22  3:18         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found]     ` <7263-Sun21Apr2002220242+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-21 21:30       ` Terje Bless
2002-04-22  3:49         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-22  6:04           ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-23 11:33           ` Kai Großjohann
2002-04-23 22:27           ` Terje Bless
     [not found]           ` <vafg01mk5tm.fsf@INBOX.auto.emacs.devel.tok.lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
2002-04-23 12:28             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-23 13:02               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-23 13:34               ` Kai Großjohann
     [not found]               ` <vafg01mh72r.fsf@INBOX.auto.emacs.devel.tok.lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
2002-04-23 14:09                 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-04-23 14:48               ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-23 23:23             ` Terje Bless
2002-04-22  6:02         ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-22  4:18       ` Miles Bader
2002-04-23  3:07     ` Andy Piper
2002-04-23 11:26     ` Kai Großjohann
     [not found]   ` <3CC23021.5090506@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-21 15:19     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-21  6:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <000601c1e8b5$2960f830$947ba8c0@TSUNAMI>
2002-04-21 10:57 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-04-21 14:48 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found] <Pine.SUN.3.91.1020421092955.2767F-100000@is>
2002-04-21 15:29 ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21 18:53   ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-23  3:07   ` Andy Piper
2002-04-23 18:42     ` Michael Matthew Toomim
2002-04-23 23:14     ` Terje Bless
     [not found]     ` <3CC5AB1D.5000004@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-23 18:52       ` Hrvoje Niksic
2002-04-25  1:41       ` Andy Piper
2002-04-25  1:41       ` Andy Piper
     [not found] <000501c1e8b4$abd058c0$947ba8c0@TSUNAMI>
2002-04-21 15:38 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found] <buoelh89xik.fsf@mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp>
2002-04-22  6:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <Pine.LNX.4.44.0204221304080.3349-100000@yxa.extundo.com>
2002-04-22 12:33 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-04-23 19:31 ` Richard Stallman
     [not found] <rj662jq5ef.fsf@zuse.dina.kvl.dk>
2002-04-22 12:59 ` Simon Josefsson
     [not found] <Pine.SUN.3.91.1020423093250.22959G-100000@is>
2002-04-23  7:01 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-23 11:16   ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <Pine.SUN.3.91.1020423173957.27983A@is>
2002-04-23 16:28 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-23 18:38 ` Michael Matthew Toomim
2002-04-23 19:29   ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]   ` <2950-Tue23Apr2002222955+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-23 22:13     ` Terje Bless
2002-04-23 23:51     ` Michael Toomim
     [not found] <vafk7qyk64g.fsf@INBOX.auto.emacs.devel.tok.lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
2002-04-23 23:21 ` Terje Bless
     [not found] ` <f01050101-1014-AC0D4356571711D6A31200039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-24  3:45   ` Sean MacLennan
2002-04-24 10:15   ` Kai Großjohann
2002-04-24 17:40   ` Jan D.
2002-04-24  0:08 Terje Bless
     [not found] <f01050101-1014-A82EBF4C571711D6A31200039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-24  0:43 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-04-24  6:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-24  9:23 ` Michael Toomim
     [not found] <m2k7qymbos.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-24  6:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-24 16:31   ` Brady Montz
     [not found] <f01050101-1014-BA54C556571711D6A31200039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-24  6:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <f01050101-1014-AEEDD9C8571711D6A31200039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-24  9:08 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found] <Pine.SUN.3.91.1020424090919.4915F-100000@is>
2002-04-25  2:04 ` Hrvoje Niksic
     [not found] <000401c1ebfa$5bc43060$947ba8c0@TSUNAMI>
2002-05-01  8:33 ` Michael Toomim

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