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From: Kyle Jones <kyle_jones@wonderworks.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@is.elta.co.il>,
	link@pobox.com, bradym@balestra.org, xemacs-design@xemacs.org,
	emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: The minibuffer vs. Dialog Boxes (Re: Making XEmacs be more up-to-date)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 12:28:35 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <a9sfko$tf$2@main.gmane.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3CC1BEB9.9020104@cs.berkeley.edu>

Michael Toomim writes:
 > Eli Zaretskii wrote:
 > >>From: Terje Bless <link@pobox.com>
 > >>Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:03:10 +0200
 > 
 > >>And speaking of which, the thing that confused me most over the years was
 > >>the terminology. A "buffer" is a "document" and a "frame" is a "window"?
 > >>Why do I have to choose "New Frame" when what I /really/ want is a new
 > >>window? And I don't work with "buffers"; I work with "files" or
 > >>"documents". "Buffers" are something hardware /has/ or that I implement in
 > >>code, it's not something I work with day-to-day.
 > > 
 > > 
 > > There's a Glossary in the manual to ease the culture shock.  I think
 > > we should advertise the glossary more, and perhaps make it more
 > > accessible by providing special links to it from doc strings etc.
 > > 
 > > I don't think it's reasonable to expect Emacs to change its
 > > terminology because most of it predates the one you are accustomed to.
 > > For example, Emacs was talking about windows when glass teletype
 > > displays were the only ones in existence.
 > > 
 > > As for buffers, I disagree that it's unused in the context used by
 > > Emacs.  I've seen several editors that do the same.
 > > 
 > 
 > I agree with Terje on this.  If XEmacs is to be designed to be more easily 
 > usable by newbies, the terminology should change along with the interface.

What about the confusion this will cause with existing users?
This sounds to me like changing Emacs for the sake of those who
don't like or support it to the detriment of those who do like
and support it, and that is just perverse.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2002-04-20 19:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 151+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <f01050101-1013-195C612D544F11D6B75900039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-20 11:59 ` The minibuffer vs. Dialog Boxes (Re: Making XEmacs be more up-to-date) Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] ` <7263-Sat20Apr2002145929+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-20 12:22   ` Miles Bader
2002-04-20 14:04   ` Simon Josefsson
2002-04-20 15:30     ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-20 18:59     ` Andreas Schwab
     [not found]     ` <E16ywpH-0004J0-00@fencepost.gnu.org>
2002-04-20 19:48       ` Hrvoje Niksic
     [not found]       ` <sxs8z7inobz.fsf@florida.arsdigita.de>
2002-04-21  0:56         ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21  5:41         ` Miles Bader
2002-04-21  5:57           ` Hrvoje Niksic
     [not found]           ` <sxsu1q5twz5.fsf@florida.arsdigita.de>
2002-04-21  7:24             ` Miles Bader
     [not found]             ` <87adrxo6o7.fsf@tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp>
2002-04-21 12:21               ` Robert J. Chassell
     [not found]               ` <m16zGLO-000IiIC@localhost>
2002-04-21 13:35                 ` Miles Bader
2002-04-23 11:17                 ` Kai Großjohann
2002-04-21  6:28         ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-20 19:17   ` Michael Toomim
     [not found]   ` <3CC1BEB9.9020104@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-20 19:28     ` Kyle Jones [this message]
2002-04-20 19:33     ` Nix
2002-04-20 19:51     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
     [not found]     ` <15553.49507.745094.604981@ice.wonderworks.com>
2002-04-21  0:04       ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21  3:24       ` Michael Toomim
     [not found]       ` <3CC230D1.2040106@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-21  3:46         ` Miles Bader
     [not found]     ` <87elhap2r4.fsf@lgh163a.kemisten.nu>
2002-04-21  1:09       ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21 11:37         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2002-04-21  3:28       ` Michael Toomim
     [not found]       ` <3CC231D2.6020709@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-21 11:25         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
     [not found]         ` <873cxpz436.fsf@lgh163a.kemisten.nu>
2002-04-21 15:41           ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21 17:54             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2002-04-21 17:08           ` Robert J. Chassell
     [not found]           ` <m16zKoy-000IioC@localhost>
2002-04-21 17:51             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2002-04-20 23:48   ` Terje Bless
     [not found]   ` <87adrypnjn.fsf@tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp>
2002-04-20 19:33     ` Michael Toomim
2002-04-20 23:58     ` Terje Bless
     [not found]     ` <3CC1C275.6090009@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-20 21:26       ` Kyle Jones
     [not found]       ` <15553.56593.407791.923999@ice.wonderworks.com>
2002-04-20 21:48         ` Andy Piper
2002-04-20 23:16         ` Michael Toomim
2002-04-21  6:24       ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-20 14:12 ` Serge Wroclawski
2002-04-20 16:28 ` Brady Montz
2002-04-20 18:51   ` Matt Tucker
     [not found] <000401c1ebfa$5bc43060$947ba8c0@TSUNAMI>
2002-05-01  8:33 ` Michael Toomim
     [not found] <Pine.SUN.3.91.1020424090919.4915F-100000@is>
2002-04-25  2:04 ` Hrvoje Niksic
     [not found] <f01050101-1014-AEEDD9C8571711D6A31200039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-24  9:08 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found] <f01050101-1014-BA54C556571711D6A31200039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-24  6:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <m2k7qymbos.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-24  6:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-24 16:31   ` Brady Montz
     [not found] <f01050101-1014-A82EBF4C571711D6A31200039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-24  0:43 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-04-24  6:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-24  9:23 ` Michael Toomim
2002-04-24  0:08 Terje Bless
     [not found] <vafk7qyk64g.fsf@INBOX.auto.emacs.devel.tok.lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
2002-04-23 23:21 ` Terje Bless
     [not found] ` <f01050101-1014-AC0D4356571711D6A31200039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-24  3:45   ` Sean MacLennan
2002-04-24 10:15   ` Kai Großjohann
2002-04-24 17:40   ` Jan D.
     [not found] <Pine.SUN.3.91.1020423173957.27983A@is>
2002-04-23 16:28 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-23 18:38 ` Michael Matthew Toomim
2002-04-23 19:29   ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]   ` <2950-Tue23Apr2002222955+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-23 22:13     ` Terje Bless
2002-04-23 23:51     ` Michael Toomim
     [not found] <Pine.SUN.3.91.1020423093250.22959G-100000@is>
2002-04-23  7:01 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-23 11:16   ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <rj662jq5ef.fsf@zuse.dina.kvl.dk>
2002-04-22 12:59 ` Simon Josefsson
     [not found] <Pine.LNX.4.44.0204221304080.3349-100000@yxa.extundo.com>
2002-04-22 12:33 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-04-23 19:31 ` Richard Stallman
     [not found] <buoelh89xik.fsf@mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp>
2002-04-22  6:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <000501c1e8b4$abd058c0$947ba8c0@TSUNAMI>
2002-04-21 15:38 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found] <Pine.SUN.3.91.1020421092955.2767F-100000@is>
2002-04-21 15:29 ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21 18:53   ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-23  3:07   ` Andy Piper
2002-04-23 18:42     ` Michael Matthew Toomim
2002-04-23 23:14     ` Terje Bless
     [not found]     ` <3CC5AB1D.5000004@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-23 18:52       ` Hrvoje Niksic
2002-04-25  1:41       ` Andy Piper
2002-04-25  1:41       ` Andy Piper
     [not found] <000601c1e8b5$2960f830$947ba8c0@TSUNAMI>
2002-04-21 10:57 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-04-21 14:48 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found] <f01050101-1013-2EBD099554C511D6B75900039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-21  1:45 ` Hrvoje Niksic
2002-04-21  6:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] ` <sxssn5pvn7u.fsf@florida.arsdigita.de>
2002-04-21  2:10   ` Miles Bader
2002-04-21  3:21   ` Michael Toomim
2002-04-21  6:39   ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-21 15:11   ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21 17:17     ` Hrvoje Niksic
2002-04-21 19:02     ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]     ` <sxsbscdt1i3.fsf@florida.arsdigita.de>
2002-04-21 19:40       ` Michael Toomim
     [not found]       ` <3CC31593.1040001@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-22  3:18         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found]     ` <7263-Sun21Apr2002220242+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-21 21:30       ` Terje Bless
2002-04-22  3:49         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-22  6:04           ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-23 11:33           ` Kai Großjohann
     [not found]           ` <vafg01mk5tm.fsf@INBOX.auto.emacs.devel.tok.lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
2002-04-23 12:28             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-23 13:02               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-23 13:34               ` Kai Großjohann
     [not found]               ` <vafg01mh72r.fsf@INBOX.auto.emacs.devel.tok.lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
2002-04-23 14:09                 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-04-23 14:48               ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-23 23:23             ` Terje Bless
2002-04-23 22:27           ` Terje Bless
2002-04-22  6:02         ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-22  4:18       ` Miles Bader
2002-04-23  3:07     ` Andy Piper
2002-04-23 11:26     ` Kai Großjohann
     [not found]   ` <3CC23021.5090506@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-21 15:19     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found] <87sn5q2mj4.fsf@amaterasu.srvr.nix>
2002-04-21  6:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <4.3.2.7.2.20020419095141.00bf8580@san-francisco.beasys.com>
2002-04-20 15:44 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-04-20 16:59   ` Andy Piper
2002-04-20 19:42   ` Hrvoje Niksic
     [not found]   ` <sxshem6nolr.fsf@florida.arsdigita.de>
2002-04-21  3:47     ` Michael Toomim
2002-04-21  8:44     ` Per Abrahamsen
     [not found] <4.3.2.7.2.20020417123512.0398e4c8@san-francisco.beasys.com>
2002-04-19 11:40 ` Per Abrahamsen
     [not found] ` <rjk7r3zzk4.fsf@zuse.dina.kvl.dk>
2002-04-19 16:27   ` Brady Montz
2002-04-19 16:55   ` Andy Piper
2002-04-20 17:27   ` Richard Stallman
     [not found] ` <4.3.2.7.2.20020419095654.00bee3c0@san-francisco.beasys.com>
2002-04-19 19:01   ` Brady Montz
2002-04-20 17:28   ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]   ` <200204201728.g3KHSDW01513@aztec.santafe.edu>
2002-04-20 21:45     ` Andy Piper
2002-04-21 15:54     ` William M. Perry
     [not found] ` <m2g01rbjhi.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-19 20:28   ` Andy Piper
     [not found] ` <4.3.2.7.2.20020419132421.00bfa9d0@san-francisco.beasys.com>
2002-04-19 20:39   ` Brady Montz
2002-04-20 23:53   ` William M. Perry
     [not found] ` <m2d6wvodpt.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-19 17:00   ` Andy Piper
2002-04-20 11:03   ` Terje Bless
2002-04-20 17:27   ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]   ` <200204201727.g3KHRTg01417@aztec.santafe.edu>
2002-04-21  2:06     ` Brady Montz
     [not found]     ` <m2wuv1yfdj.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-21  6:48       ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-21  7:35         ` Brady Montz
2002-04-21 15:31           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found]           ` <87vgal3w79.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
2002-04-21 17:17             ` Brady Montz
2002-04-21 18:49             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]             ` <m2d6wtx97q.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-21 19:09               ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-22  2:58               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found]               ` <87vgak30cw.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
2002-04-22 16:54                 ` Brady Montz
     [not found]                 ` <m2elh7wu6m.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-22 19:40                   ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                   ` <7263-Mon22Apr2002224014+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-22 20:46                     ` Brady Montz
2002-04-23  4:03                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-23  6:31                       ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                       ` <87bscbysbm.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
2002-04-23  6:41                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-23 16:21                         ` Brady Montz
     [not found]                         ` <m2r8l6v108.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-23 17:09                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found]                           ` <878z7euysa.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
2002-04-23 18:20                             ` Brady Montz
2002-04-23 19:21                               ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                               ` <7263-Tue23Apr2002222135+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-23 19:56                                 ` Brady Montz
2002-04-23 23:00                       ` Michael Toomim
2002-04-24  6:09                         ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]               ` <2950-Sun21Apr2002220958+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-22 16:56                 ` Brady Montz
2002-04-21  9:01       ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-04-21 20:21         ` Simon Josefsson
     [not found]         ` <ilusn5o950a.fsf@extundo.com>
2002-04-22  8:50           ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-04-22  9:00             ` Miles Bader
     [not found]             ` <buoy9fg85ve.fsf@mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp>
2002-04-22 10:44               ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-04-22 11:12               ` Simon Josefsson
     [not found]               ` <rjk7r0ovw9.fsf@zuse.dina.kvl.dk>
2002-04-22 12:36                 ` Miles Bader
2002-04-22 22:36           ` Richard Stallman

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