unofficial mirror of emacs-devel@gnu.org 
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
Cc: "Kyle Jones" <kyle_jones@wonderworks.com>,
	"Michael Toomim" <toomim@cs.berkeley.edu>,
	"Miles Bader" <miles@gnu.org>,
	 "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@is.elta.co.il>, <link@pobox.com>,
	 <bradym@balestra.org>, <xemacs-design@xemacs.org>,
	 <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: The minibuffer vs. Dialog Boxes (Re: Making XEmacs be more up-to-date)
Date: 21 Apr 2002 23:48:59 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <a9ujlc$qk1$2@main.gmane.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <000601c1e8b5$2960f830$947ba8c0@TSUNAMI>

>>>>> "Andy" == Andy Piper <andy@xemacs.org> writes:

    Andy> I think the issue is not so much that Emacs uses weird
    Andy> terminology but that Emacs uses different terminology to a
    Andy> hundred other editors. Seems like we're arguing for
    Andy> Esperanto rather than words that are actually in the
    Andy> dictionary.

    >> -----Original Message-----

Followed by about 100 lines of uninterrupted quote.

Talking about Emacs requires a much bigger vocabulary than talking
about text widgets that cause intelligent people to top-post.

It's true that we do use words like "file" and "window" differently
from other editors, but the distinctions that cause these distinct
usages will not go away without drastically changing Emacs, and
reducing its capabilities.

It's true that many of the "programmer's editors" you advocate that
Emacs emulate have specialized capabilities we can dream of having in
a year or two at best, but none of them provide the kind of
flexibility that Emacs does.  Describing that flexibility precisely
and accurately does require words that are only found in unabridged
dictionaries, or in specialist's jargon glossaries.

-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2002-04-21 14:48 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 151+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <000601c1e8b5$2960f830$947ba8c0@TSUNAMI>
2002-04-21 10:57 ` The minibuffer vs. Dialog Boxes (Re: Making XEmacs be more up-to-date) Alex Schroeder
2002-04-21 14:48 ` Stephen J. Turnbull [this message]
     [not found] <000401c1ebfa$5bc43060$947ba8c0@TSUNAMI>
2002-05-01  8:33 ` Michael Toomim
     [not found] <Pine.SUN.3.91.1020424090919.4915F-100000@is>
2002-04-25  2:04 ` Hrvoje Niksic
     [not found] <f01050101-1014-A82EBF4C571711D6A31200039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-24  0:43 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-04-24  6:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-24  9:23 ` Michael Toomim
     [not found] <f01050101-1014-AEEDD9C8571711D6A31200039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-24  9:08 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found] <f01050101-1014-BA54C556571711D6A31200039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-24  6:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <m2k7qymbos.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-24  6:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-24 16:31   ` Brady Montz
2002-04-24  0:08 Terje Bless
     [not found] <vafk7qyk64g.fsf@INBOX.auto.emacs.devel.tok.lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
2002-04-23 23:21 ` Terje Bless
     [not found] ` <f01050101-1014-AC0D4356571711D6A31200039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-24  3:45   ` Sean MacLennan
2002-04-24 10:15   ` Kai Großjohann
2002-04-24 17:40   ` Jan D.
     [not found] <Pine.SUN.3.91.1020423173957.27983A@is>
2002-04-23 16:28 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-23 18:38 ` Michael Matthew Toomim
2002-04-23 19:29   ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]   ` <2950-Tue23Apr2002222955+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-23 22:13     ` Terje Bless
2002-04-23 23:51     ` Michael Toomim
     [not found] <Pine.SUN.3.91.1020423093250.22959G-100000@is>
2002-04-23  7:01 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-23 11:16   ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <rj662jq5ef.fsf@zuse.dina.kvl.dk>
2002-04-22 12:59 ` Simon Josefsson
     [not found] <Pine.LNX.4.44.0204221304080.3349-100000@yxa.extundo.com>
2002-04-22 12:33 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-04-23 19:31 ` Richard Stallman
     [not found] <buoelh89xik.fsf@mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp>
2002-04-22  6:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <000501c1e8b4$abd058c0$947ba8c0@TSUNAMI>
2002-04-21 15:38 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found] <Pine.SUN.3.91.1020421092955.2767F-100000@is>
2002-04-21 15:29 ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21 18:53   ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-23  3:07   ` Andy Piper
2002-04-23 18:42     ` Michael Matthew Toomim
2002-04-23 23:14     ` Terje Bless
     [not found]     ` <3CC5AB1D.5000004@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-23 18:52       ` Hrvoje Niksic
2002-04-25  1:41       ` Andy Piper
2002-04-25  1:41       ` Andy Piper
     [not found] <87sn5q2mj4.fsf@amaterasu.srvr.nix>
2002-04-21  6:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <f01050101-1013-2EBD099554C511D6B75900039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-21  1:45 ` Hrvoje Niksic
2002-04-21  6:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] ` <sxssn5pvn7u.fsf@florida.arsdigita.de>
2002-04-21  2:10   ` Miles Bader
2002-04-21  3:21   ` Michael Toomim
2002-04-21  6:39   ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-21 15:11   ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21 17:17     ` Hrvoje Niksic
2002-04-21 19:02     ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]     ` <sxsbscdt1i3.fsf@florida.arsdigita.de>
2002-04-21 19:40       ` Michael Toomim
     [not found]       ` <3CC31593.1040001@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-22  3:18         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found]     ` <7263-Sun21Apr2002220242+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-21 21:30       ` Terje Bless
2002-04-22  3:49         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-22  6:04           ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-23 11:33           ` Kai Großjohann
     [not found]           ` <vafg01mk5tm.fsf@INBOX.auto.emacs.devel.tok.lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
2002-04-23 12:28             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-23 13:02               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-23 13:34               ` Kai Großjohann
     [not found]               ` <vafg01mh72r.fsf@INBOX.auto.emacs.devel.tok.lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
2002-04-23 14:09                 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-04-23 14:48               ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-23 23:23             ` Terje Bless
2002-04-23 22:27           ` Terje Bless
2002-04-22  6:02         ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-22  4:18       ` Miles Bader
2002-04-23  3:07     ` Andy Piper
2002-04-23 11:26     ` Kai Großjohann
     [not found]   ` <3CC23021.5090506@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-21 15:19     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found] <4.3.2.7.2.20020419095141.00bf8580@san-francisco.beasys.com>
2002-04-20 15:44 ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-04-20 16:59   ` Andy Piper
2002-04-20 19:42   ` Hrvoje Niksic
     [not found]   ` <sxshem6nolr.fsf@florida.arsdigita.de>
2002-04-21  3:47     ` Michael Toomim
2002-04-21  8:44     ` Per Abrahamsen
     [not found] <f01050101-1013-195C612D544F11D6B75900039300CF5C@[192.168.1.7]>
2002-04-20 11:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-20 14:12 ` Serge Wroclawski
2002-04-20 16:28 ` Brady Montz
2002-04-20 18:51   ` Matt Tucker
     [not found] ` <7263-Sat20Apr2002145929+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-20 12:22   ` Miles Bader
2002-04-20 14:04   ` Simon Josefsson
2002-04-20 15:30     ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-20 18:59     ` Andreas Schwab
     [not found]     ` <E16ywpH-0004J0-00@fencepost.gnu.org>
2002-04-20 19:48       ` Hrvoje Niksic
     [not found]       ` <sxs8z7inobz.fsf@florida.arsdigita.de>
2002-04-21  0:56         ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21  5:41         ` Miles Bader
2002-04-21  5:57           ` Hrvoje Niksic
     [not found]           ` <sxsu1q5twz5.fsf@florida.arsdigita.de>
2002-04-21  7:24             ` Miles Bader
     [not found]             ` <87adrxo6o7.fsf@tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp>
2002-04-21 12:21               ` Robert J. Chassell
     [not found]               ` <m16zGLO-000IiIC@localhost>
2002-04-21 13:35                 ` Miles Bader
2002-04-23 11:17                 ` Kai Großjohann
2002-04-21  6:28         ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-20 19:17   ` Michael Toomim
     [not found]   ` <3CC1BEB9.9020104@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-20 19:28     ` Kyle Jones
2002-04-20 19:33     ` Nix
2002-04-20 19:51     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
     [not found]     ` <15553.49507.745094.604981@ice.wonderworks.com>
2002-04-21  0:04       ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21  3:24       ` Michael Toomim
     [not found]       ` <3CC230D1.2040106@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-21  3:46         ` Miles Bader
     [not found]     ` <87elhap2r4.fsf@lgh163a.kemisten.nu>
2002-04-21  1:09       ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21 11:37         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2002-04-21  3:28       ` Michael Toomim
     [not found]       ` <3CC231D2.6020709@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-21 11:25         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
     [not found]         ` <873cxpz436.fsf@lgh163a.kemisten.nu>
2002-04-21 15:41           ` Terje Bless
2002-04-21 17:54             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2002-04-21 17:08           ` Robert J. Chassell
     [not found]           ` <m16zKoy-000IioC@localhost>
2002-04-21 17:51             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
     [not found]   ` <87adrypnjn.fsf@tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp>
2002-04-20 19:33     ` Michael Toomim
2002-04-20 23:58     ` Terje Bless
     [not found]     ` <3CC1C275.6090009@cs.berkeley.edu>
2002-04-20 21:26       ` Kyle Jones
     [not found]       ` <15553.56593.407791.923999@ice.wonderworks.com>
2002-04-20 21:48         ` Andy Piper
2002-04-20 23:16         ` Michael Toomim
2002-04-21  6:24       ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-20 23:48   ` Terje Bless
     [not found] <4.3.2.7.2.20020417123512.0398e4c8@san-francisco.beasys.com>
2002-04-19 11:40 ` Per Abrahamsen
     [not found] ` <rjk7r3zzk4.fsf@zuse.dina.kvl.dk>
2002-04-19 16:27   ` Brady Montz
2002-04-19 16:55   ` Andy Piper
2002-04-20 17:27   ` Richard Stallman
     [not found] ` <m2g01rbjhi.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-19 20:28   ` Andy Piper
     [not found] ` <4.3.2.7.2.20020419132421.00bfa9d0@san-francisco.beasys.com>
2002-04-19 20:39   ` Brady Montz
2002-04-20 23:53   ` William M. Perry
     [not found] ` <m2d6wvodpt.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-19 17:00   ` Andy Piper
2002-04-20 11:03   ` Terje Bless
2002-04-20 17:27   ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]   ` <200204201727.g3KHRTg01417@aztec.santafe.edu>
2002-04-21  2:06     ` Brady Montz
     [not found]     ` <m2wuv1yfdj.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-21  6:48       ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-21  7:35         ` Brady Montz
2002-04-21 15:31           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found]           ` <87vgal3w79.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
2002-04-21 17:17             ` Brady Montz
2002-04-21 18:49             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]             ` <m2d6wtx97q.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-21 19:09               ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-22  2:58               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found]               ` <87vgak30cw.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
2002-04-22 16:54                 ` Brady Montz
     [not found]                 ` <m2elh7wu6m.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-22 19:40                   ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                   ` <7263-Mon22Apr2002224014+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-22 20:46                     ` Brady Montz
2002-04-23  4:03                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2002-04-23  6:31                       ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                       ` <87bscbysbm.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
2002-04-23  6:41                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-04-23 16:21                         ` Brady Montz
     [not found]                         ` <m2r8l6v108.fsf@sandman.balestra.org>
2002-04-23 17:09                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found]                           ` <878z7euysa.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
2002-04-23 18:20                             ` Brady Montz
2002-04-23 19:21                               ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                               ` <7263-Tue23Apr2002222135+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-23 19:56                                 ` Brady Montz
2002-04-23 23:00                       ` Michael Toomim
2002-04-24  6:09                         ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]               ` <2950-Sun21Apr2002220958+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
2002-04-22 16:56                 ` Brady Montz
2002-04-21  9:01       ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-04-21 20:21         ` Simon Josefsson
     [not found]         ` <ilusn5o950a.fsf@extundo.com>
2002-04-22  8:50           ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-04-22  9:00             ` Miles Bader
     [not found]             ` <buoy9fg85ve.fsf@mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp>
2002-04-22 10:44               ` Per Abrahamsen
2002-04-22 11:12               ` Simon Josefsson
     [not found]               ` <rjk7r0ovw9.fsf@zuse.dina.kvl.dk>
2002-04-22 12:36                 ` Miles Bader
2002-04-22 22:36           ` Richard Stallman
     [not found] ` <4.3.2.7.2.20020419095654.00bee3c0@san-francisco.beasys.com>
2002-04-19 19:01   ` Brady Montz
2002-04-20 17:28   ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]   ` <200204201728.g3KHSDW01513@aztec.santafe.edu>
2002-04-20 21:45     ` Andy Piper
2002-04-21 15:54     ` William M. Perry

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to='a9ujlc$qk1$2@main.gmane.org' \
    --to=stephen@xemacs.org \
    --cc=bradym@balestra.org \
    --cc=eliz@is.elta.co.il \
    --cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
    --cc=kyle_jones@wonderworks.com \
    --cc=link@pobox.com \
    --cc=miles@gnu.org \
    --cc=toomim@cs.berkeley.edu \
    --cc=xemacs-design@xemacs.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).