From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Per Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: The minibuffer vs. Dialog Boxes (Re: Making XEmacs be more up-to-date) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:40:43 +0200 Organization: The Church of Emacs Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020417123512.0398e4c8@san-francisco.beasys.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1019216545 17104 127.0.0.1 (19 Apr 2002 11:42:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:42:25 +0000 (UTC) Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16yWmX-0004Rl-00 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:42:25 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 16yX5s-0005wJ-00 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:02:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16yWmH-0001el-00; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:42:09 -0400 Original-Received: from sheridan.dina.kvl.dk ([130.225.40.227]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16yWl6-0001UO-00 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:40:56 -0400 Original-Received: from zuse.dina.kvl.dk (zuse.dina.kvl.dk [130.225.40.245]) by sheridan.dina.kvl.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA10015; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:40:44 +0200 Original-Received: (from abraham@localhost) by zuse.dina.kvl.dk (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id NAA29186; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:40:43 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: zuse.dina.kvl.dk: abraham set sender to abraham@dina.kvl.dk using -f Original-To: xemacs-design@xemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Face: +kRV2]2q}lixHkE{U)mY#+6]{AH=yN~S9@IFiOa@X6?GM|8MBp/ In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020417123512.0398e4c8@san-francisco.beasys.com> (Andy Piper's message of "Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:37:46 -0700") Original-Lines: 36 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090006 (Oort Gnus v0.06) Emacs/21.1 (sparc-sun-solaris2.8) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:2770 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:2770 Crossmailed between emacs-devel and xemacs-design. Andy Piper writes: > However, we should provide dialog boxes if people do things in a gui > way, Actually, I believe the trend in HCI research is to avoid or minimize the use of dialog boxes. They really _are_ in the way, also in a GUI. This doesn't mean the current (X)Emacs interface is good, it certainly isn't intuitive to a new user. So I think we really ought to forget about dialog boxes, and instead concentrate on making the minibuffer interface more accesible. Here is some suggestions: 1. Put the minibuffer in the top by default. It is more visible there, and users of MSIE or Mozilla (and apparently some modern IDE's) will not be surprised to find an input field there. 2. Add some strong visual clue (color, animation, whatever) when focus change to the minibuffer. The toolbar should probably also change to "relevant" buttons for the action, and for those actions that are relevant, a 3. Maybe even have a dialog box (!) pointing to the minibuffer when activating a menu entry that traditionally pop up a dialog. The box should have an "OK" and a "Don't pop up next time" button. 3b Alternatively a "novice" mode, where an arrow point to minibuffer, and a tooltip like message explain what is going on. Many games teach their UI in that way. (What a cool way to organize the standard (X)Emacs tutorial! But I digress). Dialog boxes are so 1980's.