Re: Adding use-package to core

[xenodasein--- via "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel@gnu.org>]

Nov 14, 2022, 00:27 by luangruo@yahoo.com:
> xenodasein--- via "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> writes:
> > Why don't you?  This package has been very popular for a long time and
> > at least I haven't seen anyone complain about it not being in core.
> > Whatever gets included seem to freeze in time and becomes very hard to
> > make non-breaking changes
>
> First of all, this is untrue. I think we have always let whoever
> happens to be maintaining a package in core decide which changes to
> make, and that includes breaking ones.
>
> Secondly, not making breaking changes does not cause you to ``freeze in
> time''.

Something changes or it doesn't, I have no clue what you mean.

> > and their writers probably get frustrated from that more easily and
> > stop developing it.
>
> Any statistics?

I invite you to think what would it be like anytime you mention something
here the answer was any statistics, any statistics?  That this kind of
funny to imagine.

Anyway, 'statistics' in my head formed after looking through lisp files,
how many of them there, and the fact that how few people are maintaining
these, anyone can see this thanks to git.  Problem is over time commits
to core packages keep making assumptions about each other's existence
and that inter-dependency does not seem to encourage anyone to work on
them, even their original writers.  Even you are in your own X corner
and not touching that issue, except for nay-saying on this list.

> > There's ever more lines of code and more packages, I don't think this
> > direction is sustainable and I hope you will reconsider this approach
> > of adding everything to core at some point.
>
> Personally, I hope that everything most people find useful will
> eventually make its way into Emacs, because doing so is a direct
> shortcut to making Emacs more useful for everyone.

Yeah?  Who he is going to put in the cold hard work hours into
maintaining all that?  Furthermore after certain complexity it is
of no help even having numerous developers.  These are well documented
and understood facts of software development and when someone keeps
denying these things without substantial argument it displays blatant
incompetence.  I don't see how bundling millions of lines of code
together when there is already a system to distribute these as external
packages is a shortcut to usefulness for everyone (what does that even
mean?)  Anyone after some kind of shortcut to usefulness seem to simply
download VSCode and be done with it.