From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
To: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
Cc: Lynn Winebarger <owinebar@gmail.com>,
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>,
emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Abysmal state of GTK build
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022 17:44:40 +0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87y1vgeho7.fsf@yahoo.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <86y1vg3a31.fsf@gmail.com> (Tim Cross's message of "Mon, 22 Aug 2022 18:32:26 +1000")
Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:
> You missed my point. I'm not saying the change is because of a stylistic
> issue - I'm saying the change is likely to create a stylistic
> issue. This will in turn cause more resistance to the change and
> possibly increase motivation to do whatever is necessary to re-enable
> gtk build.
Reenabling the GTK build will be as easy as specifying
"--with-x-toolkit=gtk" at configure-time. It's not being deleted.
> Yes, I know that and that is a problem for distributions where they want
> to minimise the distro size and number of packages which need to be
> maintained. As it stands now, most distributions include 3 packages -
> emacs-gtk, emacs-lucid and emacs-nox. As they move to support wayland,
> they will either have to include emacs-pgtk or continue with the
> wayland-x interface. The risk is, given they need GTK for both emacs-gtk
> and emacs-pgtk, they will drop the emacs-lucid package rather than the
> emacs-gtk package (unless we help educate them on why that would be a
> bad choice). To educate effectively, it helps to understand their
> situation and not just address the technical issues seen from a pure
> emacs development position.
They don't need anything extra for emacs-notoolkit.
> OK, so how does my Emacs default theme change between dark and light
> theme when I change the theme of my desktop environment? This never use
> to work and I assumed it was because emacs didn't respect the DE
> theme. I use to manage it via X resources. However, I noticed on recent
> installs under both Ubuntu and Fedora that changing between light and
> dark themes also resulted in changes to (for example) the menus and
> menu-bar from a light background with dark text to a dark background
> with light text. My assumption was that this was due to the GTK theme
> being respected?
The menu bar is not part of Emacs's own interface.
> Which is fine for those who know lisp. However, this isn't what people
> expect these days. THis was my point - lots of the comments and reviews
> for recent distributions of Ubuntu and Fedora have referenced greatly
> improved theme/style consistencies. From my own limited experience, this
> appears to extend to Emacs as well (to a limited extent, not the whole
> UI, just menus, popup dialogue boxes etc.
You can use Customize too, if you want.
> Ignoring the level of motivation visual appeal/style has to peoples
> decisions is likely to be somewhat naive. There are plenty of examples
> of superior technology/solutions losing to inferior ones because of
> non-technical reasons.
That doesn't mean it's a good idea to base our decisions on those
non-technical reaspons.
> I also wonder about how frequent these crashes and technical issues
> are. I switched over from gtk to lucid a little while ago. However,
> prior to switching, I experienced absolutely no issues and I cannot
> recall the last time Emacs crashed for me. I'm running latest emacs
> devel (29.0.50) on Fedora 36 (previously on Ubutnu 22.04). I'm a heavy
> Emacs users, running it every day all day and using it for nearly
> everything. I switched to lucid because the technical arguments made
> sense to me. However, I did not experience any of the technical issues
> you reference. If my experience is more common, then your purely
> technical argument is going to have difficulty gaining traction.
I'm going to say that you're simply lucky. Search for "GTK" on the bug
tracker, in etc/PROBLEMS, and on this list, and you will see what I mean
very quickly.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-08-22 9:44 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 288+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <87ilmlluxq.fsf.ref@yahoo.com>
2022-08-21 11:04 ` Abysmal state of GTK build Po Lu
2022-08-21 11:19 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-21 11:44 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:01 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-21 14:06 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:11 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-22 1:04 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 11:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-21 11:39 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 15:54 ` Robert Pluim
2022-08-21 16:32 ` Sean Whitton
2022-08-21 16:46 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 16:50 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 16:58 ` Sean Whitton
2022-08-22 1:13 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 4:32 ` tomas
2022-08-23 3:44 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 3:58 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 4:51 ` tomas
2022-08-21 16:51 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-21 17:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-21 17:35 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-22 1:15 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 2:06 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-23 3:44 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 4:02 ` Po Lu
2022-08-25 3:32 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-25 4:18 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 11:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:15 ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 8:57 ` Robert Pluim
2022-08-24 10:43 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 11:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 11:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-25 6:25 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-25 6:52 ` Po Lu
2022-08-25 6:57 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-25 8:28 ` xdisp.c in C++ (Was: Abysmal state of GTK build) Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-25 9:04 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-23 3:44 ` Abysmal state of GTK build Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 4:03 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 11:26 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-08-23 12:30 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 12:50 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-08-23 13:01 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-22 1:10 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 16:51 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-22 1:17 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 6:47 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-22 1:11 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 3:44 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 12:41 ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-08-23 13:00 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 11:49 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 12:00 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-21 12:06 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 13:34 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 13:38 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 13:46 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 13:59 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:11 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 14:16 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 14:20 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:28 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 18:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-22 1:07 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:29 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-21 19:27 ` Rob Browning
2022-08-22 3:10 ` Sean Whitton
2022-08-22 5:43 ` Rob Browning
2022-08-22 7:10 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-22 7:56 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 16:47 ` Sean Whitton
2022-08-21 15:28 ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-22 5:21 ` Jean Louis
2022-08-22 6:01 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 6:48 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-22 7:55 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 8:32 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-22 9:44 ` Po Lu [this message]
2022-08-22 23:19 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-23 0:57 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 4:44 ` Consistent theme across the desktop [Re: Abysmal state of GTK build] tomas
2022-08-23 11:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:02 ` tomas
2022-08-23 12:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:48 ` tomas
2022-08-23 13:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 14:10 ` tomas
2022-08-23 15:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 16:38 ` Yuri Khan
2022-08-23 16:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 4:23 ` tomas
2022-08-24 11:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:31 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 4:24 ` tomas
2022-08-22 9:04 ` Abysmal state of GTK build Dirk-Jan C. Binnema
2022-08-22 12:10 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 12:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-22 12:59 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 13:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 0:42 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 2:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 3:04 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 17:52 ` Yilkal Argaw
2022-08-23 18:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-24 1:50 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 12:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-22 13:03 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 13:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-23 0:45 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 10:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-22 13:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 0:46 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 15:10 ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-23 6:34 ` Dirk-Jan C. Binnema
2022-08-23 8:58 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 3:46 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 4:04 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 4:27 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 13:30 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 13:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-21 13:41 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 13:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-21 13:47 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 13:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-21 14:01 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 7:38 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-23 8:54 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 9:27 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-23 9:39 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-23 14:07 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-23 14:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-23 15:29 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-23 16:14 ` Alternative build systems (Was: Abysmal state of GTK build) Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 16:36 ` Alternative build systems Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-23 16:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 23:38 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-24 1:48 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 12:35 ` Abysmal state of GTK build Andrea Corallo
2022-08-24 12:57 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-24 13:00 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-24 13:42 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 16:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 16:10 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-23 16:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 10:11 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 11:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 11:30 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 11:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 12:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-24 12:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-25 12:03 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-25 12:07 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-25 12:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:13 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 12:16 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-24 6:38 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-24 11:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 11:51 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-24 12:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 12:04 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-24 12:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 12:22 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-23 17:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-24 10:14 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 10:46 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 10:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 11:15 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 11:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:13 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 12:20 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:36 ` Po Lu
2022-08-25 3:33 ` Changing the make setup for Emacs Richard Stallman
2022-08-25 22:42 ` change the Subject line (was: Changing the make setup for Emacs) andrés ramírez
2022-08-21 13:36 ` Abysmal state of GTK build Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 13:43 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 13:51 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 14:04 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:13 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 14:18 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 15:02 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-22 1:18 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 10:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-22 11:46 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 11:56 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-22 12:14 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 12:21 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-22 13:13 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 13:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-23 0:50 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 11:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:17 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 17:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 0:47 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 2:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 3:05 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 11:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 3:51 ` Jean Louis
2022-08-23 5:14 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 11:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:34 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 12:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-25 3:32 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 3:53 ` Jean Louis
2022-08-21 14:05 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-21 14:08 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:15 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 14:17 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:27 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-22 1:09 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 2:32 ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
2022-08-24 2:47 ` Po Lu
2022-08-25 3:33 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-21 14:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-23 3:44 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 3:57 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 4:20 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 4:34 ` tomas
2022-08-26 3:36 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 4:25 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-24 4:37 ` tomas
2022-08-24 7:52 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-24 4:58 ` Po Lu
2022-08-26 3:36 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-26 5:26 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-28 4:06 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-28 4:14 ` Po Lu
2022-09-04 3:01 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-28 7:45 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-21 14:47 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-08-21 14:58 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-22 7:05 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-22 7:51 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 3:46 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 15:08 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-25 16:01 ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-08-26 1:29 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 7:00 Payas Relekar
2022-08-23 7:17 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 7:21 ` Payas Relekar
2022-08-23 8:53 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 13:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-24 1:16 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 1:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-23 12:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:29 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 12:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:59 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 15:13 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-23 15:18 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-23 16:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 16:41 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-23 16:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 23:25 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-24 1:45 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:02 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-24 3:41 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 23:25 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-24 4:25 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 1:36 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 2:31 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-24 3:23 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 4:18 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 8:52 ` Robert Pluim
2022-08-26 3:36 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-26 4:34 ` Po Lu
2022-09-04 3:01 ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-04 5:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-05 4:03 ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-05 8:34 ` Robert Pluim
2022-09-05 14:12 ` Po Lu
2022-09-07 13:03 ` Daniel Brooks
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-08-23 13:53 Payas Relekar
2022-08-24 1:15 ` Po Lu
2022-09-04 4:08 Payas Relekar
2022-09-05 4:03 ` Richard Stallman
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