From: "Dirk-Jan C. Binnema" <djcb@djcbsoftware.nl>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Abysmal state of GTK build
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 09:34:54 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87mtbvv37w.fsf@djcbsoftware.nl> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87mtbweaxj.fsf@yahoo.com>
Thanks for the detailed response.
On Monday Aug 22 2022, Po Lu wrote:
> "Dirk-Jan C. Binnema" <djcb@djcbsoftware.nl> writes:
>
>> Does this apply to pgtk as well?
>
> PGTK has other problems on the input and selection side of things, and
> shouldn't be used on X at all. Try to select a large chunk of text in
> the PGTK build running under X (xdisp.c immediately comes to mind), and
> insert it into another program with Button2. It will immediately crash
> with an X Windows error.
So it does not apply to pgtk on Wayland? What about on X?
I don't use X, but I can't remember problems copy-pasting between other
Gtk program (say, GEdit and gnome-builder). What is emacs doing
differently?
>> TBH, this whole thread sounds needlessly alarmist.
>
> I'd have said the same until I actually started working on the GTK
> build, which was in an even worse state several months ago.
I've seen some old grumblings and apparently some new problem with
Xinput2-related code. But I've been happily using gtk-based emacs since
20 years or so? So, I find it strange if it suddenly changed to
"abysmal" and selected for immediate demotion to be non-default.
> It seems to me that the same crowd asking for various "modern" GTK
> features also want features like pixel-scroll-precision-mode and monitor
> refresh synchronization, which cause crashes or don't work on GTK. We
> are then blamed for the feature not working there as a result of bugs or
> misdesigns in GTK.
I'm not seeing any of that. What about Gimp & Inkscape -- don't they
support Xinput2?
> In any case, there is no excuse for GTK to have buggy XInput 2 support,
> considering that it used to be something that we did not support,
> requiring various workarounds to explictly disable in GTK, and is
> mentioned in the first few paragraphs of the GTK+ 2 to 3 migration
> guidelines.
There are always excuses for bugs of course :-) In this case it seems
that emacs exercises some old code in new ways, while the maintainers
are concentrating on Wayland.
>> I'd actually hope we'd be able to do it _more_ with GTK, such as having
>> GTK tabs, using the header bar, etc., where emacs currently looks rather
>> antiquated.
>
> Then we'd be dealing with GTK randomly resizing our frames to fit the
> tab bar in addition to the menu bar. Or the authors of the GNOME Human
> Interface Guidelines declaring tab bars against the law at some point in
> the future. No thanks.
E.g. tab-usage like Gedit or Gnome Builder do it, would be a great
visual improvement IMHO. Or even Firefox's (which implemented their own
tabs I think?).
Anyway, thank you for your work... it is appreciated.
Kind regards,
Dirk.
--
Dirk-Jan C. Binnema Helsinki, Finland
e:djcb@djcbsoftware.nl w:www.djcbsoftware.nl
gpg: 6987 9CED 1745 9375 0F14 DA98 11DD FEA9 DCC4 A036
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-08-23 6:34 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 288+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <87ilmlluxq.fsf.ref@yahoo.com>
2022-08-21 11:04 ` Abysmal state of GTK build Po Lu
2022-08-21 11:19 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-21 11:44 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:01 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-21 14:06 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:11 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-22 1:04 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 11:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-21 11:39 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 15:54 ` Robert Pluim
2022-08-21 16:32 ` Sean Whitton
2022-08-21 16:46 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 16:50 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 16:58 ` Sean Whitton
2022-08-22 1:13 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 4:32 ` tomas
2022-08-23 3:44 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 3:58 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 4:51 ` tomas
2022-08-21 16:51 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-21 17:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-21 17:35 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-22 1:15 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 2:06 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-23 3:44 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 4:02 ` Po Lu
2022-08-25 3:32 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-25 4:18 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 11:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:15 ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 8:57 ` Robert Pluim
2022-08-24 10:43 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 11:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 11:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-25 6:25 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-25 6:52 ` Po Lu
2022-08-25 6:57 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-25 8:28 ` xdisp.c in C++ (Was: Abysmal state of GTK build) Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-25 9:04 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-23 3:44 ` Abysmal state of GTK build Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 4:03 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 11:26 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-08-23 12:30 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 12:50 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-08-23 13:01 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-22 1:10 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 16:51 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-22 1:17 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 6:47 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-22 1:11 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 3:44 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 12:41 ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-08-23 13:00 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 11:49 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 12:00 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-21 12:06 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 13:34 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 13:38 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 13:46 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 13:59 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:11 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 14:16 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 14:20 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:28 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 18:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-22 1:07 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:29 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-21 19:27 ` Rob Browning
2022-08-22 3:10 ` Sean Whitton
2022-08-22 5:43 ` Rob Browning
2022-08-22 7:10 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-22 7:56 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 16:47 ` Sean Whitton
2022-08-21 15:28 ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-22 5:21 ` Jean Louis
2022-08-22 6:01 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 6:48 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-22 7:55 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 8:32 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-22 9:44 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 23:19 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-23 0:57 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 4:44 ` Consistent theme across the desktop [Re: Abysmal state of GTK build] tomas
2022-08-23 11:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:02 ` tomas
2022-08-23 12:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:48 ` tomas
2022-08-23 13:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 14:10 ` tomas
2022-08-23 15:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 16:38 ` Yuri Khan
2022-08-23 16:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 4:23 ` tomas
2022-08-24 11:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:31 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 4:24 ` tomas
2022-08-22 9:04 ` Abysmal state of GTK build Dirk-Jan C. Binnema
2022-08-22 12:10 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 12:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-22 12:59 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 13:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 0:42 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 2:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 3:04 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 17:52 ` Yilkal Argaw
2022-08-23 18:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-24 1:50 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 12:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-22 13:03 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 13:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-23 0:45 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 10:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-22 13:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 0:46 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 15:10 ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-23 6:34 ` Dirk-Jan C. Binnema [this message]
2022-08-23 8:58 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 3:46 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 4:04 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 4:27 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 13:30 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 13:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-21 13:41 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 13:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-21 13:47 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 13:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-21 14:01 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 7:38 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-23 8:54 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 9:27 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-23 9:39 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-23 14:07 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-23 14:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-23 15:29 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-23 16:14 ` Alternative build systems (Was: Abysmal state of GTK build) Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 16:36 ` Alternative build systems Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-23 16:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 23:38 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-24 1:48 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 12:35 ` Abysmal state of GTK build Andrea Corallo
2022-08-24 12:57 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-24 13:00 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-24 13:42 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 16:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 16:10 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-23 16:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 10:11 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 11:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 11:30 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 11:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 12:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-24 12:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-25 12:03 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-25 12:07 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-25 12:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:13 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 12:16 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-24 6:38 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-24 11:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 11:51 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-24 12:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 12:04 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-24 12:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 12:22 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-23 17:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-24 10:14 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 10:46 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 10:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 11:15 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 11:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:13 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 12:20 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:36 ` Po Lu
2022-08-25 3:33 ` Changing the make setup for Emacs Richard Stallman
2022-08-25 22:42 ` change the Subject line (was: Changing the make setup for Emacs) andrés ramírez
2022-08-21 13:36 ` Abysmal state of GTK build Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 13:43 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 13:51 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 14:04 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:13 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 14:18 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 15:02 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-22 1:18 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 10:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-22 11:46 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 11:56 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-22 12:14 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 12:21 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-22 13:13 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 13:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-23 0:50 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 11:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:17 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 17:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 0:47 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 2:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 3:05 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 11:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 3:51 ` Jean Louis
2022-08-23 5:14 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 11:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:34 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 12:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-25 3:32 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 3:53 ` Jean Louis
2022-08-21 14:05 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-21 14:08 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:15 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 14:17 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:27 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-22 1:09 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 2:32 ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
2022-08-24 2:47 ` Po Lu
2022-08-25 3:33 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-21 14:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-23 3:44 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 3:57 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 4:20 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 4:34 ` tomas
2022-08-26 3:36 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 4:25 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-24 4:37 ` tomas
2022-08-24 7:52 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-24 4:58 ` Po Lu
2022-08-26 3:36 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-26 5:26 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-28 4:06 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-28 4:14 ` Po Lu
2022-09-04 3:01 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-28 7:45 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-21 14:47 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-08-21 14:58 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-22 7:05 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-22 7:51 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 3:46 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 15:08 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-25 16:01 ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-08-26 1:29 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 7:00 Payas Relekar
2022-08-23 7:17 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 7:21 ` Payas Relekar
2022-08-23 8:53 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 13:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-24 1:16 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 1:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-23 12:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:29 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 12:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:59 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 15:13 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-23 15:18 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-23 16:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 16:41 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-23 16:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 23:25 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-24 1:45 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:02 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-24 3:41 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 23:25 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-24 4:25 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 1:36 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 2:31 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-24 3:23 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 4:18 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 8:52 ` Robert Pluim
2022-08-26 3:36 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-26 4:34 ` Po Lu
2022-09-04 3:01 ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-04 5:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-05 4:03 ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-05 8:34 ` Robert Pluim
2022-09-05 14:12 ` Po Lu
2022-09-07 13:03 ` Daniel Brooks
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-08-23 13:53 Payas Relekar
2022-08-24 1:15 ` Po Lu
2022-09-04 4:08 Payas Relekar
2022-09-05 4:03 ` Richard Stallman
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