From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
To: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
Cc: Lynn Winebarger <owinebar@gmail.com>,
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>,
emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Abysmal state of GTK build
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022 15:55:16 +0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <877d30g1az.fsf@yahoo.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <8635do4u9b.fsf@gmail.com> (Tim Cross's message of "Mon, 22 Aug 2022 16:48:17 +1000")
Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:
> Like others in this thread, I don't use the menu-bar, toolbar,
> scroll-bars etc, so toolkit seems somewhat irrelevant (I have to do an
> M-x version to see which one I'm using!). I build using lucid as that
> seemed like a better choice than gtk and I use xfce rather than gnome as
> my desktop environment (and sometimes stumpwm).
[...]
> I suspect a part of the decision regarding which toolkit to build emacs
> with for various distros probably relates to minimising the number of
> toolkits to install. As Gnome seems to be the current 'default', gtk is
> already installed, so will likely be a preferred choice unless some
> other compelling reason is given.
The problem here is not a stylistic issue. I want to disable the GTK
build by default because it leads to serious problems for users, up to
and including crashes.
> With Fedora now shipping with Wayland as default and the recent
> announcement regarding nvidia driver licensing and support for nvidia
> under wayland, I suspectg we will see a significant growth in
> distributions defaulting to wayland and wanting to reduce/remove
> dependency on X.
The regular GTK build of Emacs will not run on GNOME Wayland either.
People who want to use Wayland should use the different PGTK build instead.
> One factor which will likely come into play if we changed the default
> toolkit is theming. I've noticed that in both the most recent releases
> of Ubuntu and Fedora, a lot of reviews and comments centred around
> improved consistency in themes (especially consistency when switching
> between light/dark themes). With a lucid build, I expect you will need
> to setup X resources to match your theme. With the GTK build, it looks
> like it inherits from whatever you set your default theme to (for menus
> etc).
Emacs's own interface doesn't respect any toolkit theme.
> Personally, I tend to define my theme and just leave it. I do use a dark
> theme and after many years, I have a good default Xresources, so not a
> big issue for me (with the exception of some qt based apps). However,
> for a generation brought up using Gnome, the whole xrdb stuff is likely
> to be challenging/frustrating. I assume similar issues will exist for
> the no toolket default.
The no toolkit build can be customized entirely with Lisp.
> I don't think this is sufficient reason not to change the default to
> (lets say) lucid - just mention it as I suspect it will cause some
> disruption/frustration. There also seems to be a lot of bad
> information about using/setting Xresources out there, which might add
> to the confusion.
Are you sure what you understand "this" is? I'm going to say this
again: defaulting to the GTK build because it "looks better" or is "more
consistent" is quite simply trading crashes for looks.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-08-22 7:55 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 288+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <87ilmlluxq.fsf.ref@yahoo.com>
2022-08-21 11:04 ` Abysmal state of GTK build Po Lu
2022-08-21 11:19 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-21 11:44 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:01 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-21 14:06 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:11 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-22 1:04 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 11:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-21 11:39 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 15:54 ` Robert Pluim
2022-08-21 16:32 ` Sean Whitton
2022-08-21 16:46 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 16:50 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 16:58 ` Sean Whitton
2022-08-22 1:13 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 4:32 ` tomas
2022-08-23 3:44 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 3:58 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 4:51 ` tomas
2022-08-21 16:51 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-21 17:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-21 17:35 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-22 1:15 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 2:06 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-23 3:44 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 4:02 ` Po Lu
2022-08-25 3:32 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-25 4:18 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 11:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:15 ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 8:57 ` Robert Pluim
2022-08-24 10:43 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 11:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 11:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-25 6:25 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-25 6:52 ` Po Lu
2022-08-25 6:57 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-25 8:28 ` xdisp.c in C++ (Was: Abysmal state of GTK build) Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-25 9:04 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-23 3:44 ` Abysmal state of GTK build Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 4:03 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 11:26 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-08-23 12:30 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 12:50 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-08-23 13:01 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-22 1:10 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 16:51 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-22 1:17 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 6:47 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-22 1:11 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 3:44 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 12:41 ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-08-23 13:00 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 11:49 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 12:00 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-21 12:06 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 13:34 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 13:38 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 13:46 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 13:59 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:11 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 14:16 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 14:20 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:28 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 18:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-22 1:07 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:29 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-21 19:27 ` Rob Browning
2022-08-22 3:10 ` Sean Whitton
2022-08-22 5:43 ` Rob Browning
2022-08-22 7:10 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-22 7:56 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 16:47 ` Sean Whitton
2022-08-21 15:28 ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-22 5:21 ` Jean Louis
2022-08-22 6:01 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 6:48 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-22 7:55 ` Po Lu [this message]
2022-08-22 8:32 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-22 9:44 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 23:19 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-23 0:57 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 4:44 ` Consistent theme across the desktop [Re: Abysmal state of GTK build] tomas
2022-08-23 11:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:02 ` tomas
2022-08-23 12:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:48 ` tomas
2022-08-23 13:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 14:10 ` tomas
2022-08-23 15:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 16:38 ` Yuri Khan
2022-08-23 16:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 4:23 ` tomas
2022-08-24 11:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:31 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 4:24 ` tomas
2022-08-22 9:04 ` Abysmal state of GTK build Dirk-Jan C. Binnema
2022-08-22 12:10 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 12:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-22 12:59 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 13:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 0:42 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 2:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 3:04 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 17:52 ` Yilkal Argaw
2022-08-23 18:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-24 1:50 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 12:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-22 13:03 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 13:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-23 0:45 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 10:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-22 13:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 0:46 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 15:10 ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-23 6:34 ` Dirk-Jan C. Binnema
2022-08-23 8:58 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 3:46 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 4:04 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 4:27 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 13:30 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 13:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-21 13:41 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 13:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-21 13:47 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 13:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-21 14:01 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 7:38 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-23 8:54 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 9:27 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-23 9:39 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-23 14:07 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-23 14:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-23 15:29 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-23 16:14 ` Alternative build systems (Was: Abysmal state of GTK build) Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 16:36 ` Alternative build systems Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-23 16:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 23:38 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-24 1:48 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 12:35 ` Abysmal state of GTK build Andrea Corallo
2022-08-24 12:57 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-24 13:00 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-24 13:42 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 16:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 16:10 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-23 16:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 10:11 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 11:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 11:30 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 11:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 12:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-24 12:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-25 12:03 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-25 12:07 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-25 12:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:13 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 12:16 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-24 6:38 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-24 11:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 11:51 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-24 12:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 12:04 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-24 12:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 12:22 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-08-23 17:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-24 10:14 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 10:46 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 10:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 11:15 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 11:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:13 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 12:20 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:36 ` Po Lu
2022-08-25 3:33 ` Changing the make setup for Emacs Richard Stallman
2022-08-25 22:42 ` change the Subject line (was: Changing the make setup for Emacs) andrés ramírez
2022-08-21 13:36 ` Abysmal state of GTK build Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 13:43 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 13:51 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 14:04 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:13 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 14:18 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 15:02 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-22 1:18 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 10:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-22 11:46 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 11:56 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-22 12:14 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 12:21 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-22 13:13 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 13:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-23 0:50 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 11:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-24 12:17 ` Po Lu
2022-08-22 17:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 0:47 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 2:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 3:05 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 11:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 3:51 ` Jean Louis
2022-08-23 5:14 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 11:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:34 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 12:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-25 3:32 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 3:53 ` Jean Louis
2022-08-21 14:05 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-21 14:08 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:15 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-21 14:17 ` Po Lu
2022-08-21 14:27 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-22 1:09 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 2:32 ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
2022-08-24 2:47 ` Po Lu
2022-08-25 3:33 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-21 14:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-23 3:44 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 3:57 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 4:20 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 4:34 ` tomas
2022-08-26 3:36 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 4:25 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-24 4:37 ` tomas
2022-08-24 7:52 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-24 4:58 ` Po Lu
2022-08-26 3:36 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-26 5:26 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-28 4:06 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-28 4:14 ` Po Lu
2022-09-04 3:01 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-28 7:45 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-21 14:47 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-08-21 14:58 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-08-22 7:05 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-22 7:51 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 3:46 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-23 15:08 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-25 16:01 ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-08-26 1:29 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 7:00 Payas Relekar
2022-08-23 7:17 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 7:21 ` Payas Relekar
2022-08-23 8:53 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 13:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-24 1:16 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 1:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-23 12:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:29 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 12:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 12:59 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 15:13 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-23 15:18 ` Visuwesh
2022-08-23 16:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 16:41 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-23 16:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-23 23:25 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-24 1:45 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:02 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-24 3:41 ` Po Lu
2022-08-23 23:25 ` Tim Cross
2022-08-24 4:25 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 1:36 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 2:31 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-08-24 3:23 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-24 4:18 ` Po Lu
2022-08-24 8:52 ` Robert Pluim
2022-08-26 3:36 ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-26 4:34 ` Po Lu
2022-09-04 3:01 ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-04 5:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-05 4:03 ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-05 8:34 ` Robert Pluim
2022-09-05 14:12 ` Po Lu
2022-09-07 13:03 ` Daniel Brooks
2022-08-24 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-08-23 13:53 Payas Relekar
2022-08-24 1:15 ` Po Lu
2022-09-04 4:08 Payas Relekar
2022-09-05 4:03 ` Richard Stallman
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