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[85.76.145.33]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bi19-20020a0565120e9300b00492c4d2fcbfsm2174004lfb.115.2022.08.23.00.17.16 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 23 Aug 2022 00:17:17 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <87mtbweaxj.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::136; envelope-from=diggler@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x136.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:293852 Archived-At: Thanks for the detailed response. On Monday Aug 22 2022, Po Lu wrote: > "Dirk-Jan C. Binnema" writes: > >> Does this apply to pgtk as well? > > PGTK has other problems on the input and selection side of things, and > shouldn't be used on X at all. Try to select a large chunk of text in > the PGTK build running under X (xdisp.c immediately comes to mind), and > insert it into another program with Button2. It will immediately crash > with an X Windows error. So it does not apply to pgtk on Wayland? What about on X? I don't use X, but I can't remember problems copy-pasting between other Gtk program (say, GEdit and gnome-builder). What is emacs doing differently? >> TBH, this whole thread sounds needlessly alarmist. > > I'd have said the same until I actually started working on the GTK > build, which was in an even worse state several months ago. I've seen some old grumblings and apparently some new problem with Xinput2-related code. But I've been happily using gtk-based emacs since 20 years or so? So, I find it strange if it suddenly changed to "abysmal" and selected for immediate demotion to be non-default. > It seems to me that the same crowd asking for various "modern" GTK > features also want features like pixel-scroll-precision-mode and monitor > refresh synchronization, which cause crashes or don't work on GTK. We > are then blamed for the feature not working there as a result of bugs or > misdesigns in GTK. I'm not seeing any of that. What about Gimp & Inkscape -- don't they support Xinput2? > In any case, there is no excuse for GTK to have buggy XInput 2 support, > considering that it used to be something that we did not support, > requiring various workarounds to explictly disable in GTK, and is > mentioned in the first few paragraphs of the GTK+ 2 to 3 migration > guidelines. There are always excuses for bugs of course :-) In this case it seems that emacs exercises some old code in new ways, while the maintainers are concentrating on Wayland. >> I'd actually hope we'd be able to do it _more_ with GTK, such as having >> GTK tabs, using the header bar, etc., where emacs currently looks rather >> antiquated. > > Then we'd be dealing with GTK randomly resizing our frames to fit the > tab bar in addition to the menu bar. Or the authors of the GNOME Human > Interface Guidelines declaring tab bars against the law at some point in > the future. No thanks. E.g. tab-usage like Gedit or Gnome Builder do it, would be a great visual improvement IMHO. Or even Firefox's (which implemented their own tabs I think?). Anyway, thank you for your work... it is appreciated. Kind regards, Dirk. -- Dirk-Jan C. Binnema Helsinki, Finland e:djcb@djcbsoftware.nl w:www.djcbsoftware.nl gpg: 6987 9CED 1745 9375 0F14 DA98 11DD FEA9 DCC4 A036