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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net>
Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, gregory@heytings.org,
	bugs@gnu.support, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Suggested experimental test
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:09:50 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1bfef8b5-aa26-f64f-1e3b-06aabc9e9939@yandex.ru> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <831rc682js.fsf@gnu.org>

On 23.03.2021 14:41, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Isn't the idea of providing a theme to change the behaviour that users
>> can enable or disable them easily, without the defaults having to change?
> 
> The theme suggestion was a proposal to conduct an experiment without
> interfering with those who want no part in the experiment.

It has another goal as well: to have bindings changed in a logical and 
consistent fashion.

Having find-file on both 'C-x C-f' and 'C-o' would make little sense to 
me, for example.

> But
> eventually, the intent is to change the default behavior, because
> rebinding any key to any command is already possible, and nothing
> prevents users from doing that in their private init files.  So having
> a non-default theme that makes a bunch of such rebindings makes little
> sense to me.

I think the above is more important than the goal of making it a default 
(which might or might not happen in 10 years or so, if we end up 
reaching some critical mass of users who dislike Emacs's historical 
bindings).

But even while the alternative keybindings theme is not the default, we 
would maintain it and keep it usable. Whenever we add something to the 
default set, we would consider adding a corresponding binding to that 
other theme, etc.

Having an alternative, well-considered set of bindings which new user 
can just toggle on and get comfortable should be valuable.



  reply	other threads:[~2021-03-23 13:09 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 171+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-03-20  9:03 Suggested experimental test Gregory Heytings
2021-03-20 11:14 ` Jean Louis
2021-03-20 11:27   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-20 11:34   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-20 12:37 ` Proposal to remove C-o binding [was: Suggested experimental test] Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-21  6:53 ` Suggested experimental test Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-03-21  8:35   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-21 13:20     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-21 18:16       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-21 22:16         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-21 22:54           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-21 23:05             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-21 23:13               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-21 23:46                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-22  0:40                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-22 10:05                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-22 18:14                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-22 19:06                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-22 19:56                           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-03-22 21:03                             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-22 21:26                               ` Drew Adams
2021-03-23  8:06                                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-22 21:08                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-22 11:21                   ` Jean Louis
2021-03-22 11:07               ` Jean Louis
2021-03-22  3:33           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-22 10:05             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-22 11:37               ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-03-22 12:20                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-22 17:38               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-22 17:48                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-22 18:11                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-22 18:15                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-22 18:14               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-22  8:59           ` Rudolf Schlatte
2021-03-22 10:05             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-22 10:49           ` Jean Louis
2021-03-21 10:48   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-21 10:58     ` Sv: " arthur miller
2021-03-21 13:20       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-21 18:16       ` Sv: " Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-22  5:11         ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-22 10:24       ` Sv: " Jean Louis
2021-03-22 10:14     ` Jean Louis
2021-03-22 12:06     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-03-22 12:23       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-22 16:15         ` Jean Louis
2021-03-22 16:14       ` Jean Louis
2021-03-22 17:08         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-22 17:46           ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-22 17:59             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-22 18:23             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-23  6:09             ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-22 18:03           ` Jean Louis
2021-03-22 17:20       ` Robin Tarsiger
2021-03-22 17:40       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-22 17:55         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-22 18:13           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-22 20:22             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-23  8:06               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-23 14:15                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-23 14:37                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-23 16:51                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-23 17:13                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-23 18:08                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-23 21:06                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-23 21:43                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-23 21:57                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-23 22:08                               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-23 22:14                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-23 22:42                                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-23 23:05                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-24  5:15                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-24  5:16                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-24  6:39                           ` Jean Louis
2021-03-24  6:32                       ` Jean Louis
2021-03-24  6:10                   ` Jean Louis
2021-03-22 18:17         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-03-22 18:50           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-22 19:09             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-03-22 19:55               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-03-22 22:02                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-22 22:33                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-03-22 23:28                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-22 22:44                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-22 23:22                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-23  5:22                     ` Jean Louis
2021-03-23  7:43                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-23 12:28                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-03-23 12:41                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-23 13:09                             ` Dmitry Gutov [this message]
2021-03-23 13:27                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-03-23 14:00                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-23 13:54                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-23 17:04                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-23 21:06                                 ` chad
2021-03-24  5:07                             ` Jean Louis
2021-03-25  5:09                               ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-23  6:12                     ` Yuri Khan
2021-03-24 23:41                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-25  6:12                         ` Yuri Khan
2021-03-25 13:20                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-25 14:30                             ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-03-25 17:09                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-25 18:59                               ` Yuri Khan
2021-03-25 19:30                             ` Yuri Khan
2021-03-25 21:11                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-25 23:54                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-26 10:34                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-03-26 23:13                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-26 23:34                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-27  0:02                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-28 13:59                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-22 20:22               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-22 20:36                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-03-22 21:03                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-22 20:56         ` Thierry Volpiatto
2021-03-22 18:11       ` [EXTERNAL] " Stephan Mueller
2021-03-22 18:34         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-03-22 18:56           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-22 19:13             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-03-22 19:19               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-22 19:25                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-03-22 19:49                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-22 19:52                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-03-22 20:54                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-22 21:04                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-03-23  7:18                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-22 19:21               ` chad
2021-03-22 19:26                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-22 19:51                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-22 20:04                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-22 20:11                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-03-22 20:16                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-03-23  7:04                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-22 20:49                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-22 21:02                         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-03-23  7:09                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-22 19:28                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-03-22 19:56                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-03-22 20:56                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-22 21:19                       ` Drew Adams
2021-03-22 20:22             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-23  8:09               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-23 14:15                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-23 14:31                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-23 17:21                   ` Bob Rogers
2021-03-24  5:42                   ` Jean Louis
2021-03-23 20:55                 ` chad
2021-03-25 17:04           ` [EXTERNAL] " Stephan Mueller
2021-03-22 19:37         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-22 19:42         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-22 20:33       ` Jose A. Ortega Ruiz
2021-03-22 18:42     ` Sean Whitton
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-03-23 21:51 Paul W. Rankin via Emacs development discussions.
2021-03-24  8:34 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-03-24  8:51   ` tomas
2021-03-24  9:16     ` Paul W. Rankin via Emacs development discussions.
2021-03-24  9:22       ` tomas
2021-03-24 10:37     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-24 11:13       ` tomas
2021-03-24 11:51         ` Jean Louis
2021-03-24 11:55           ` tomas
2021-03-25  5:14           ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-24 17:04         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-24 17:19           ` tomas
2021-03-24 17:30         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-24 20:08           ` tomas
2021-03-25  5:14       ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-25  5:48         ` Paul W. Rankin via Emacs development discussions.
2021-03-25  7:46         ` Eli Zaretskii

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