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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: rms@gnu.org, Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: 22564@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 11:43:06 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <7ced4ce9-4804-4ea8-859c-973617d3958e@default> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <<E1aSU9T-0002aS-5O@fencepost.gnu.org>>

>> I think fundamental mode existed long before derived modes did.
> 
> Fundamental mode has existed since 1984.  The concept of derived modes
> came at least 10 years after that.  What was always true is that other
> major modes obtain their effects by changing some per-buffer values
> away from the defaults that are in effect in Fundamental mode.
							     
>> To say it shouldn't be used directly by users is a bit strange, IMAO.
> 
> It is meant to be used by users.  Creating a buffer puts it in
> Fundamental mode.  Visiting a file which does not specify any mode,
> through its contents or its name, uses Fundamental mode.
> 
> This has always been the case.

Well, yes, but in the past it was really fundamental.  Now it
does fancy "electric" stuff.  That's not bare-bones.

And now we do have derived modes. Fundamental mode is not
only the default default mode for interactive use, it is also
used non-interactively, where things like electric-this-&-that
make little sense (though they may not interfere in some cases).

IMO, if we don't return it to bare-bones interactivity then
we should move the fancy interactive features to a mode
derived from Fundamental mode and leave Fundamental mode
bare-bones - in particular for non-interactive use.

Whether that derived mode should be the new default default
mode is another question.  I don't have a problem if it is,
though that wouldn't be my first choice (I would prefer
bare-bones interactive behavior too.)

IOW, I wouldn't object if the default for interactive use
is electric, but I don't think it's a good idea for fancy
stuff to be added to the "bottom" of the pyramid
(Fundamental mode), which is used also non-interactively.





  parent reply	other threads:[~2016-02-07 19:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 46+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <<mailman.3748.1454702408.843.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
     [not found] ` <<20160206110601.6095.qmail@mail.muc.de>
2016-02-06 15:57   ` bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough Drew Adams
     [not found]   ` <<E1aSU9T-0002aS-5O@fencepost.gnu.org>
2016-02-07 19:43     ` Drew Adams [this message]
     [not found] <<20160205125559.GC7727@acm.fritz.box>
     [not found] ` <<834mdnusem.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-02-05 15:36   ` Drew Adams
2016-02-05 12:55 Alan Mackenzie
2016-02-05 14:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-05 15:13   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-02-05 15:34     ` Mark Oteiza
2016-02-05 15:38       ` Drew Adams
2016-02-05 17:57         ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-05 19:59           ` Drew Adams
2016-02-05 19:26     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-05 20:18       ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-06 19:48     ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-05 20:23 ` Glenn Morris
2016-02-05 21:43   ` Glenn Morris
2016-02-05 21:53   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-02-17  2:50     ` John Wiegley
2022-04-27 14:39       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-05-01  1:53         ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-01  6:16           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-05-02 23:47             ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-03  7:03               ` Andreas Röhler
2022-05-03 14:28                 ` Drew Adams
2022-05-03 17:00               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-05-04 22:49                 ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-05  5:43                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-05-05 11:02                     ` Andreas Röhler
2022-05-05 16:17                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-05-05 18:34                         ` Andreas Röhler
2022-05-06 23:20                     ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-07  6:30                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-05-07 23:08                         ` Richard Stallman
     [not found] ` <mailman.3748.1454702408.843.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2016-02-06 11:06   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-02-07 18:33     ` Richard Stallman
     [not found] ` <mailman.3712.1454686507.843.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2016-02-06 11:21   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-02-06 14:36     ` Mark Oteiza
2016-02-06 16:59 ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-07 19:09   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-07 21:02 ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-07 21:08   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-08 19:39 ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-08 20:05   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-08 20:18 ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-08 20:53   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-08 21:01 ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-09  3:31   ` Eli Zaretskii

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