MATE Desktop fails

MATE Desktop fails

[Gottfried]

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Hi,

since 2 days MATE Desktop doesn’t start properly.
The additional monitor doesn’t get a signal, so I have only the laptop.

Additionally on the screen the icons are different.
It seems like a basic, a save configuration.

I checked the cable of the monitor, it is o.k.
I checked the monitor with a different PC, it is o.k.

I did a "guix pull" on Thursday.

on Friday the problems occured.

Today I did a "guix pull" and a "sudo system reconfigure..." again,
it did not help.

When I started the "Enlightenment" Desktop, then the additional monitor 
worked.

So it is sure that MATE makes problems.
Does somebody have the same trouble?


Kind regards

Gottfried



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Re: MATE Desktop fails

[Gottfried]

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Hi,

I did a rollback on my guix system four times,

but MATE was not recovered.

it seems it is a gdm problem.

---------------------------------

Am I the only one who has MATE-Desktop?

---------------------------------
1.
Is there a way to repair gdm
or should I wait for a next update?

2.
Or should I install an other Desktop like LXDE

3.
Is the plasma-desktop already working?


Kind regards

Gottfried



Am 06.05.23 um 10:22 schrieb Gottfried:
> Hi,
> 
> since 2 days MATE Desktop doesn’t start properly.
> The additional monitor doesn’t get a signal, so I have only the laptop.
> 
> Additionally on the screen the icons are different.
> It seems like a basic, a save configuration.
> 
> I checked the cable of the monitor, it is o.k.
> I checked the monitor with a different PC, it is o.k.
> 
> I did a "guix pull" on Thursday.
> 
> on Friday the problems occured.
> 
> Today I did a "guix pull" and a "sudo system reconfigure..." again,
> it did not help.
> 
> When I started the "Enlightenment" Desktop, then the additional monitor 
> worked.
> 
> So it is sure that MATE makes problems.
> Does somebody have the same trouble?
> 
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Gottfried
> 
> 

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Re: MATE Desktop fails

[Julien Lepiller]

Have you tried clearing gdm's cache? I think something like rm -rf ~/.cache/gdm might solve the issue. I'm not sure for your other questions.

Le 7 mai 2023 14:11:40 GMT+02:00, Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> a écrit :
>Hi,
>
>I did a rollback on my guix system four times,
>
>but MATE was not recovered.
>
>it seems it is a gdm problem.
>
>---------------------------------
>
>Am I the only one who has MATE-Desktop?
>
>---------------------------------
>1.
>Is there a way to repair gdm
>or should I wait for a next update?
>
>2.
>Or should I install an other Desktop like LXDE
>
>3.
>Is the plasma-desktop already working?
>
>
>Kind regards
>
>Gottfried
>
>
>
>Am 06.05.23 um 10:22 schrieb Gottfried:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> since 2 days MATE Desktop doesn’t start properly.
>> The additional monitor doesn’t get a signal, so I have only the laptop.
>> 
>> Additionally on the screen the icons are different.
>> It seems like a basic, a save configuration.
>> 
>> I checked the cable of the monitor, it is o.k.
>> I checked the monitor with a different PC, it is o.k.
>> 
>> I did a "guix pull" on Thursday.
>> 
>> on Friday the problems occured.
>> 
>> Today I did a "guix pull" and a "sudo system reconfigure..." again,
>> it did not help.
>> 
>> When I started the "Enlightenment" Desktop, then the additional monitor worked.
>> 
>> So it is sure that MATE makes problems.
>> Does somebody have the same trouble?
>> 
>> 
>> Kind regards
>> 
>> Gottfried
>> 
>> 
>

Re: MATE Desktop fails

[Felix Lechner via]

Hi Gottfried,

On Sun, May 7, 2023 at 5:12 AM Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> wrote:
>
> Am I the only one who has MATE-Desktop?

There are surely others besides you. (For example, I think the Linux
creator may use it, although not on Guix.) It would make sense to wait
for more responses before you take any drastic actions.

As for GNOME, I love the looks and all its integration but GDM does a
lot of things (like suspend my servers). I'm not sure how well MATE,
which I think is GNOME 2, works with newer versions of GDM. You could
try another "display manager" like lightdm. They should really be
called graphical login managers.

Personally, I got so tired of all the changes in GNOME that I now use
EXWM again, but I do not recommend it for anyone except hardy Linux
(and Emacs) lovers.

Kind regards
Felix

Re: MATE Desktop fails

[Gottfried]

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Hi,

Am 07.05.23 um 14:32 schrieb Julien Lepiller:
 > Have you tried clearing gdm's cache? I think something like rm -rf 
~/.cache/gdm might solve the issue. I'm not sure for your other questions.
 >

I tried this command:
rm -rf ~/.cache/gdm

but it didn’t help.



Kind regards

Gottfried




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Re: MATE Desktop fails

[Gottfried]

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Hi,
thanks for your help.

How can I install "lightdm" instead of "gdm"

1.
First I guess to install:

lightdm
lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0.8

2.
changes in my conif.scm:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
my config.scm:

; This is an operating system configuration generated
;; by the graphical installer.

(use-modules (gnu))
(use-package-modules cups scanner)
(use-service-modules cups desktop networking ssh xorg virtualization)

(operating-system
   (locale "de_DE.utf8")
   (timezone "Europe/Berlin")
   (keyboard-layout (keyboard-layout "de"))
   (host-name "Tuxedo")
   (users (cons* (user-account
                   (name "gfp")
                   (comment "Gfp")
                   (group "users")
                   (home-directory "/home/gfp")
                   (supplementary-groups
                     '("wheel" "netdev" "audio" "video" "libvirt")))
                 %base-user-accounts))
   (packages
     (append
       (list (specification->package "nss-certs"))			
       %base-packages))
   (services
     (append
       (list (service mate-desktop-service-type)
             (service enlightenment-desktop-service-type)
			(service cups-service-type
				(cups-configuration
					(web-interface? #t)
					(extensions (list cups-filters hplip))))			
			(service openssh-service-type)
             (service tor-service-type)
             (set-xorg-configuration
               (xorg-configuration
                (keyboard-layout keyboard-layout)))
             (service libvirt-service-type
                      (libvirt-configuration
                       (unix-sock-group "libvirt")
                       (tls-port "16555")))
             (service virtlog-service-type
                      (virtlog-configuration
                       (max-clients 1000))))

        (modify-services %desktop-services
  	 (guix-service-type
                 config => (guix-configuration
                   (inherit config)
                   (extra-options (list "--gc-keep-derivations=yes" 
"--gc-keep-outputs=yes"))))
	 (sane-service-type _ => sane-backends))))
	
   (bootloader
     (bootloader-configuration
       (bootloader grub-efi-bootloader)
       (targets (list "/boot/efi"))
       (keyboard-layout keyboard-layout)))
   (swap-devices
    (list (swap-space
           (target (uuid "51d5cd20-4513-4a02-9e35-df4338eccaa0")))))
   (file-systems
     (cons* (file-system
              (mount-point "/boot/efi")
              (device (uuid "BB77-FE3B" 'fat32))
              (type "vfat"))
            (file-system
              (mount-point "/")
              (device
                (uuid "4fb0ed7c-61ab-45eb-be0b-ff527b320e6d"
                      'ext4))
              (type "ext4"))
            %base-file-systems))
   (initrd-modules (cons "virtio_scsi"    ; Needed to find the disk
                         %base-initrd-modules)))

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

3.
where to put that?

(service lightdm-service-type)

----------------------------------------------------
4. or this one?
A more elaborate example making use of the VNC capabilities and enabling 
more features and verbose logs could look like:

(service lightdm-service-type
          (lightdm-configuration
           (allow-empty-passwords? #t)
           (xdmcp? #t)
           (vnc-server? #t)
           (vnc-server-command
            (file-append tigervnc-server "/bin/Xvnc"
                         "  -SecurityTypes None"))
           (seats
            (list (lightdm-seat-configuration
                   (name "*")
                   (user-session "ratpoison"))))))
--------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t want ratpoison, so what should I put there instead?
--------------------------------------------------------------

I copied the "Date Type" in order to make it easier for you to see, what 
I would need.


Data Type: lightdm-configuration

     Available lightdm-configuration fields are:

     lightdm (default: lightdm) (type: file-like)

         The lightdm package to use.
     allow-empty-passwords? (default: #f) (type: boolean)

         Whether users not having a password set can login.
     debug? (default: #f) (type: boolean)

         Enable verbose output.
     xorg-configuration (type: xorg-configuration)

         The default Xorg server configuration to use to generate the 
Xorg server start script. It can be refined per seat via the 
xserver-command of the <lightdm-seat-configuration> record, if desired.
     greeters (type: list-of-greeter-configurations)

         The LightDM greeter configurations specifying the greeters to use.
     seats (type: list-of-seat-configurations)

         The seat configurations to use. A LightDM seat is akin to a user.
     xdmcp? (default: #f) (type: boolean)

         Whether a XDMCP server should listen on port UDP 177.
     xdmcp-listen-address (type: maybe-string)

         The host or IP address the XDMCP server listens for incoming 
connections. When unspecified, listen on for any hosts/IP addresses.
     vnc-server? (default: #f) (type: boolean)

         Whether a VNC server is started.
     vnc-server-command (type: file-like)

         The Xvnc command to use for the VNC server, it’s possible to 
provide extra options not otherwise exposed along the command, for 
example to disable security:

         (vnc-server-command (file-append tigervnc-server "/bin/Xvnc"
                                          " -SecurityTypes None" ))

         Or to set a PasswordFile for the classic (unsecure) VncAuth 
mechanism:

         (vnc-server-command (file-append tigervnc-server "/bin/Xvnc"
                                          " -PasswordFile 
/var/lib/lightdm/.vnc/passwd"))

         The password file should be manually created using the 
vncpasswd command. Note that LightDM will create new sessions for VNC 
users, which means they need to authenticate in the same way as local 
users would.
     vnc-server-listen-address (type: maybe-string)

         The host or IP address the VNC server listens for incoming 
connections. When unspecified, listen for any hosts/IP addresses.
     vnc-server-port (default: 5900) (type: number)

         The TCP port the VNC server should listen to.
     extra-config (default: ()) (type: list-of-strings)

         Extra configuration values to append to the LightDM 
configuration file.
----------------------------------

Data Type: lightdm-gtk-greeter-configuration

     Available lightdm-gtk-greeter-configuration fields are:

     lightdm-gtk-greeter (default: lightdm-gtk-greeter) (type: file-like)

         The lightdm-gtk-greeter package to use.
     assets (default: (adwaita-icon-theme gnome-themes-extra 
hicolor-icon-theme)) (type: list-of-file-likes)

         The list of packages complementing the greeter, such as package 
providing icon themes.
     theme-name (default: "Adwaita") (type: string)

         The name of the theme to use.
     icon-theme-name (default: "Adwaita") (type: string)

         The name of the icon theme to use.
     cursor-theme-name (default: "Adwaita") (type: string)

         The name of the cursor theme to use.
     cursor-theme-size (default: 16) (type: number)

         The size to use for the cursor theme.
     allow-debugging? (type: maybe-boolean)

         Set to #t to enable debug log level.
     background (type: file-like)

         The background image to use.
     at-spi-enabled? (default: #f) (type: boolean)

         Enable accessibility support through the Assistive Technology 
Service Provider Interface (AT-SPI).
     a11y-states (default: (contrast font keyboard reader)) (type: 
list-of-a11y-states)

         The accessibility features to enable, given as list of symbols.
     reader (type: maybe-file-like)

         The command to use to launch a screen reader.
     extra-config (default: ()) (type: list-of-strings)

         Extra configuration values to append to the LightDM GTK Greeter 
configuration file.
-----------------------------------------------------

I don’t know what "seat-configuration" means



Data Type: lightdm-seat-configuration

     Available lightdm-seat-configuration fields are:

     name (type: seat-name)

         The name of the seat. An asterisk (*) can be used in the name 
to apply the seat configuration to all the seat names it matches.
     user-session (type: maybe-string)

         The session to use by default. The session name must be 
provided as a lowercase string, such as "gnome", "ratpoison", etc.
     type (default: local) (type: seat-type)

         The type of the seat, either the local or xremote symbol.
     autologin-user (type: maybe-string)

         The username to automatically log in with by default.
     greeter-session (default: lightdm-gtk-greeter) (type: greeter-session)

         The greeter session to use, specified as a symbol. Currently, 
only lightdm-gtk-greeter is supported.
     xserver-command (type: maybe-file-like)

         The Xorg server command to run.
     session-wrapper (type: file-like)

         The xinitrc session wrapper to use.
     extra-config (default: ()) (type: list-of-strings)

         Extra configuration values to append to the seat configuration 
section.
------------------------------------------------------
Kind regards

Gottfried


Am 07.05.23 um 17:24 schrieb Felix Lechner:
> Hi Gottfried,
> 
> On Sun, May 7, 2023 at 5:12 AM Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> wrote:
>>
>> Am I the only one who has MATE-Desktop?
> 
> There are surely others besides you. (For example, I think the Linux
> creator may use it, although not on Guix.) It would make sense to wait
> for more responses before you take any drastic actions.
> 
> As for GNOME, I love the looks and all its integration but GDM does a
> lot of things (like suspend my servers). I'm not sure how well MATE,
> which I think is GNOME 2, works with newer versions of GDM. You could
> try another "display manager" like lightdm. They should really be
> called graphical login managers.
> 
> Personally, I got so tired of all the changes in GNOME that I now use
> EXWM again, but I do not recommend it for anyone except hardy Linux
> (and Emacs) lovers.
> 
> Kind regards
> Felix

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Re: MATE Desktop fails

[Felix Lechner via]

Hi Gottfried,

On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 8:32 AM Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> wrote:
>
> How can I install "lightdm" instead of "gdm"

I have never used lightdm but I think it is reasonably popular. You
may wish to wait for more responses before making such a drastic
change.

Have you tried switching into regular X.org (or into Wayland) using
the little sessions sprocket in the GDM login screen?

As for lightdm, the Guix reference manual offers an example
configuration here. [1] You would probably also want to remove the
gdm-service-type from %desktop-services with something like this:

(services
  (append
    (list

      [...]

      (service lightdm-service-type))

    (modify-services %desktop-services
      (delete gdm-service-type))))

That was typed by hand and is untested, but you can see a more general
example here. [2]

Kind regards
Felix

[1] https://guix.gnu.org/en/manual/devel/en/html_node/X-Window.html#lightdm
[2] https://codeberg.org/lechner/system-config/src/branch/history/host/lechner-desktop/operating-system.scm#L249

Re: MATE Desktop fails

[Gottfried]

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Hi,

thanks for helping me.

Can it be that MATE 1.24.1 desktop with gdm is already 3 years old,
and became slowly worse.

Since some month I have to enter my password at login twice,

now the additional monitor isn’t recognised any more,

even during starting it is recognised, but after the second login it is 
not recognised anymore.

Could it be that MATE 1.24.1 became always worse through updating gdm 
because now MATE 1.26 (already in Trisquel 11 used) und MATE 1.27 is 
available, and after updating to a new version the support for the older 
version is not so good any more?

16.04.2023	MATE 1.27
2021-08-10 09:00   MATE 1.26 released
2020-02-10 09:00   MATE 1.24 released

Kind regards

Gottfried


Am 08.05.23 um 18:24 schrieb Felix Lechner:
> Hi Gottfried,
> 
> On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 8:32 AM Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> wrote:
>>
>> How can I install "lightdm" instead of "gdm"
> 
> I have never used lightdm but I think it is reasonably popular. You
> may wish to wait for more responses before making such a drastic
> change.
> 
> Have you tried switching into regular X.org (or into Wayland) using
> the little sessions sprocket in the GDM login screen?
> 
> As for lightdm, the Guix reference manual offers an example
> configuration here. [1] You would probably also want to remove the
> gdm-service-type from %desktop-services with something like this:
> 
> (services
>    (append
>      (list
> 
>        [...]
> 
>        (service lightdm-service-type))
> 
>      (modify-services %desktop-services
>        (delete gdm-service-type))))
> 
> That was typed by hand and is untested, but you can see a more general
> example here. [2]
> 
> Kind regards
> Felix
> 
> [1] https://guix.gnu.org/en/manual/devel/en/html_node/X-Window.html#lightdm
> [2] https://codeberg.org/lechner/system-config/src/branch/history/host/lechner-desktop/operating-system.scm#L249

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Re: MATE Desktop fails

[Gottfried]

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Hi,
> Have you tried switching into regular X.org (or into Wayland) using
>> the little sessions sprocket in the GDM login screen?

There is no possibility to do that.

I have got 2 options:

login to MATE or login to ENLIGHTENMENT Desktop.
that’s all.

Kind regards

Gottfried





Am 08.05.23 um 18:24 schrieb Felix Lechner:
> Hi Gottfried,
> 
> On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 8:32 AM Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> wrote:
>>
>> How can I install "lightdm" instead of "gdm"
> 
> I have never used lightdm but I think it is reasonably popular. You
> may wish to wait for more responses before making such a drastic
> change.
> 
> Have you tried switching into regular X.org (or into Wayland) using
> the little sessions sprocket in the GDM login screen?
> 
> As for lightdm, the Guix reference manual offers an example
> configuration here. [1] You would probably also want to remove the
> gdm-service-type from %desktop-services with something like this:
> 
> (services
>    (append
>      (list
> 
>        [...]
> 
>        (service lightdm-service-type))
> 
>      (modify-services %desktop-services
>        (delete gdm-service-type))))
> 
> That was typed by hand and is untested, but you can see a more general
> example here. [2]
> 
> Kind regards
> Felix
> 
> [1] https://guix.gnu.org/en/manual/devel/en/html_node/X-Window.html#lightdm
> [2] https://codeberg.org/lechner/system-config/src/branch/history/host/lechner-desktop/operating-system.scm#L249

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Re: MATE Desktop fails

[Felix Lechner via]

Hi Gottfried,

On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 3:09 AM Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> wrote:
>
> Could it be that MATE 1.24.1 became always worse through updating gdm
> because now MATE 1.26 (already in Trisquel 11 used) und MATE 1.27 is
> available, and after updating to a new version the support for the older
> version is not so good any more?

Yes, that is very well possible, although I have no experience with
MATE. Have you looked at Gnome Classic [1] as a possible alternative?

I think the Classic view comes with Gnome 3 and uses their newer
technologies but looks more like Gnome 2. If you have any room for
compromise, it might be worth your time.

The link above has instructions. I think you can select the Classic
view via the little session gear in the GDM login screen.

Sorry about the experience you are having. Your frustration is the
reason why many folks still use Winblows, but Linux will ultimately
give you a lot more freedom. You are paying a steep price right now.

Kind regards
Felix

[1] https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/gnome-classic.html

Re: MATE Desktop fails

[Gottfried]

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Hi,
thanks for help.

> The link above has instructions. I think you can select the Classic
>> view via the little session gear in the GDM login screen.

I didn’t see any link above, only underneath for gnome-classic.

I remember from an earlier distro, that I looked at gnome-classic,
but it is like gnome. No much difference.

MATE is nice, I prefer it instead of Gnome, because I had many problems 
with Gnome. If you update a Gnome-shell-extension then the whole desktop 
breaks down and only in uninstalling it the graphical desktop is useable 
again.
I prefer kde plasma.

It seems to me, after using Guix for 1 year, that packages for 
developers like Emacs are very well maintained.

But others like the different desktops have constantly problems and you 
can not use everything on those desktops. only the basics are working. 
But they don’t work well with all the additional add-ons.

In other distros like manjaro, endeavour I remember the desktops and 
they are working well with all the add-ons, but in Guix it is different.

Probably there is not enough time and interest for the developers of 
Guix to deal with the desktops. They deal more with the packages for 
scientific use and not so much with those packages for the daily normal 
users.


Kind regards

Gottfried




Am 09.05.23 um 16:03 schrieb Felix Lechner:
> Hi Gottfried,
> 
> On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 3:09 AM Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> wrote:
>>
>> Could it be that MATE 1.24.1 became always worse through updating gdm
>> because now MATE 1.26 (already in Trisquel 11 used) und MATE 1.27 is
>> available, and after updating to a new version the support for the older
>> version is not so good any more?
> 
> Yes, that is very well possible, although I have no experience with
> MATE. Have you looked at Gnome Classic [1] as a possible alternative?
> 
> I think the Classic view comes with Gnome 3 and uses their newer
> technologies but looks more like Gnome 2. If you have any room for
> compromise, it might be worth your time.
> 
> The link above has instructions. I think you can select the Classic
> view via the little session gear in the GDM login screen.
> 
> Sorry about the experience you are having. Your frustration is the
> reason why many folks still use Winblows, but Linux will ultimately
> give you a lot more freedom. You are paying a steep price right now.
> 
> Kind regards
> Felix
> 
> [1] https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/gnome-classic.html

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Re: MATE Desktop fails

[Felix Lechner via]

Hi Gottfried,

On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 7:23 AM Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> wrote:
>
> It seems to me, after using Guix for 1 year, that packages for
> developers like Emacs are very well maintained.

You are right. For better or for worse, Guix is a speciality distribution.

Some of us have higher hopes. Personally, I believe Guix has the
potential to be the next Debian.

> But others like the different desktops have constantly problems and you
> can not use everything on those desktops. only the basics are working.
> But they don’t work well with all the additional add-ons.

Many Guix folks come from other Linux or BSD distributions. We have
years of experience fixing our systems. We have high thresholds for
technical pain. We are zealots.

A user's convenience is usually not a huge factor for us. [1] It puts
us at odds with nice folks like yourself.

> In other distros like manjaro, endeavour I remember the desktops and
> they are working well with all the add-ons, but in Guix it is different.

There are many distributions out there. You should pick the one that
is best for you.

> Probably there is not enough time and interest for the developers of
> Guix to deal with the desktops. They deal more with the packages for
> scientific use and not so much with those packages for the daily normal
> users.

If you are staying with Guix (which I would wholeheartedly encourage)
you should try to find (or perhaps organize) a group with interests
similar to yourself. You have to find people with the same goals so
you can learn and advocate together. Already the Talmud stated right
in its introduction: "Provide for yourself a teacher and get yourself
a friend." (Pirkei Avot 1:6) [2]

To you I hope to be a bit of both, but your interest in music and
other arts surpasses my own. Anyone with interest in MIDI and editing
music may please speak up!

Kind regards
Felix

[1] https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=CP8CNp-vksc
[2] https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/pirkei-avot-ethics-of-the-fathers-3/

Re: MATE Desktop fails

[Gottfried]

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Hi,

thanks for your thoughts.

I would like to stay with GNU Guix if possible,

but it takes a lot of time at the moment,

and I am not pleased with it, because I don’t want to spend all my spare 
time with hacking Guix.

If I manage to install several (may be 3) Desktops
I would be happy, that’s my aim for the moment.

Then I could always switch the desktops and choose the one, which is 
working, in case the others don’t work for my needs.

Then I would be on the save side, to at least be able to work with Guix 
System.

The enlightenment desktop doesn’t work well.
Now the MATE desktop can’t use an additional monitor besides the laptop, 
which I would need.
So I have to install a 3rd desktop, hopefully it will work.

I started to learn Emacs some month ago, but it takes a lot of time, and 
I am not able to use your approach with EXWM because I don’t have the 
time to study computer science/Informatik.

I am using Emacs on a low level, and I started to use org-mode to get a 
certain order with some files.
Of course Emacs is very good and I would like to learn to use it little 
by little.

> Some of us have higher hopes. Personally, I believe Guix has the
>> potential to be the next Debian.

I also share that hope, because Debian works well, I simply left it 
because I want GNU and a rolling release distro.

I would be satisfied if Guix System manages to use some desktops on a 
basic level, simply to use it for the daily needs. I don’t need more. So 
I am learning to be satisfied with the basics.

It would be interesting if the gdm display manager in MATE desktop would 
work, if somebody updates the MATE desktop to the version 1.27 (now 1.24.1).


Kind regards

Gottfried


Am 09.05.23 um 19:07 schrieb Felix Lechner:
> Hi Gottfried,
> 
> On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 7:23 AM Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> wrote:
>>
>> It seems to me, after using Guix for 1 year, that packages for
>> developers like Emacs are very well maintained.
> 
> You are right. For better or for worse, Guix is a speciality distribution.
> 
> Some of us have higher hopes. Personally, I believe Guix has the
> potential to be the next Debian.
> 
>> But others like the different desktops have constantly problems and you
>> can not use everything on those desktops. only the basics are working.
>> But they don’t work well with all the additional add-ons.
> 
> Many Guix folks come from other Linux or BSD distributions. We have
> years of experience fixing our systems. We have high thresholds for
> technical pain. We are zealots.
> 
> A user's convenience is usually not a huge factor for us. [1] It puts
> us at odds with nice folks like yourself.
> 
>> In other distros like manjaro, endeavour I remember the desktops and
>> they are working well with all the add-ons, but in Guix it is different.
> 
> There are many distributions out there. You should pick the one that
> is best for you.
> 
>> Probably there is not enough time and interest for the developers of
>> Guix to deal with the desktops. They deal more with the packages for
>> scientific use and not so much with those packages for the daily normal
>> users.
> 
> If you are staying with Guix (which I would wholeheartedly encourage)
> you should try to find (or perhaps organize) a group with interests
> similar to yourself. You have to find people with the same goals so
> you can learn and advocate together. Already the Talmud stated right
> in its introduction: "Provide for yourself a teacher and get yourself
> a friend." (Pirkei Avot 1:6) [2]
> 
> To you I hope to be a bit of both, but your interest in music and
> other arts surpasses my own. Anyone with interest in MIDI and editing
> music may please speak up!
> 
> Kind regards
> Felix
> 
> [1] https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=CP8CNp-vksc
> [2] https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/pirkei-avot-ethics-of-the-fathers-3/

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Re: MATE Desktop fails

[Felix Lechner via]

Hi Gottfried,

On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 2:26 PM Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> wrote:
>
> I would like to stay with GNU Guix if possible,

Thank you for your continued goodwill toward Guix.

> but it takes a lot of time at the moment,

My first month with Guix was one of the hardest ever. I was so
desperate and felt so small, I hardly slept. My todo list was
enormous, and anguish filled my heart.

> the MATE desktop can’t use an additional monitor besides the laptop,

Is this under X or Wayland? Please see if the eyes in 'xeyes' follow
your mouse. In X, you can try something like

    xrandr --output VGA-1 --auto --left-of LVDS-1

xrandr will tell you the names of all available outputs when you run
it without arguments.

> I started to learn Emacs some month ago, but it takes a lot of time, and
> I am not able to use your approach with EXWM because I don’t have the
> time to study computer science/Informatik.

You shouldn't, and I do not recommend it.

> Of course Emacs is very good and I would like to learn to use it little
> by little.

Emacs is an editor for you (and a way of life for me). It's actually a
bit like yoga. You can go into the pose as deeply as you like, but you
should not go further than you are comfortable at that moment.

> I also share that hope, because Debian works well, I simply left it
> because I want GNU and a rolling release distro.

You could track Debian testing [1] as I did for twenty years. It's a
rolling release in which software is guaranteed to build on all
official machine types.

For the hardy, there is also Debian unstable. [2] That's kind of what
you are getting with Guix, although the latter is a lot more stable
and has dramatically less danger of data loss.

[1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting
[2] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable

> I would be satisfied if Guix System manages to use some desktops on a
> basic level, simply to use it for the daily needs.

Gnome 3 seems to be reasonably well supported on my family's
computers, which run Guix.

> I am learning to be satisfied with the basics.

Welcome to the club. May your freedom serve as compensation for your toils.

> It would be interesting if the gdm display manager in MATE desktop would
> work, if somebody updates the MATE desktop to the version 1.27 (now 1.24.1).

GDM should offer a MATE session in the login screen when both are
installed, but I haven't tried.

Thanks for sticking with us!

Kind regards
Felix

Re: MATE Desktop fails

[Gottfried]

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Hi,

> Is this under X or Wayland? Please see if the eyes in 'xeyes' follow
>> your mouse. In X, you can try something like
>> 
>>      xrandr --output VGA-1 --auto --left-of LVDS-1
>> 
>> xrandr will tell you the names of all available outputs when you run
>> it without arguments.


gfp@Tuxedo ~$ xrandr --output VGA-1 --auto --left-of LVDS-1
-bash: xrandr: Kommando nicht gefunden.

xrandr seems to be not installed.
---------------------------------------------------------
gfp@Tuxedo ~$ echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
x11

so I am in Xorg.
---------------------------------------------------------

I forgot to say that Debian manages very well the GUI/Desktops
So for Guix it will be still much work to improve on that,
in order that Guix becomes like Debian.
-----------------------------------------------------
Debian works well with the proprietory software.
Without them there are problems. This is my experience.

If it is possible to use Debian testing without proprietary software
it would be an alternative, but we would need somebody who tells us if 
that works well.

------------------------------------------
> GDM should offer a MATE session in the login screen when both are
>> installed, but I haven't tried.

I can try to install it. hopefully it will work.


Kind regards

Gottfried



Am 10.05.23 um 00:58 schrieb Felix Lechner:
> Hi Gottfried,
> 
> On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 2:26 PM Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> wrote:
>>
>> I would like to stay with GNU Guix if possible,
> 
> Thank you for your continued goodwill toward Guix.
> 
>> but it takes a lot of time at the moment,
> 
> My first month with Guix was one of the hardest ever. I was so
> desperate and felt so small, I hardly slept. My todo list was
> enormous, and anguish filled my heart.
> 
>> the MATE desktop can’t use an additional monitor besides the laptop,
> 
> Is this under X or Wayland? Please see if the eyes in 'xeyes' follow
> your mouse. In X, you can try something like
> 
>      xrandr --output VGA-1 --auto --left-of LVDS-1
> 
> xrandr will tell you the names of all available outputs when you run
> it without arguments.
> 
>> I started to learn Emacs some month ago, but it takes a lot of time, and
>> I am not able to use your approach with EXWM because I don’t have the
>> time to study computer science/Informatik.
> 
> You shouldn't, and I do not recommend it.
> 
>> Of course Emacs is very good and I would like to learn to use it little
>> by little.
> 
> Emacs is an editor for you (and a way of life for me). It's actually a
> bit like yoga. You can go into the pose as deeply as you like, but you
> should not go further than you are comfortable at that moment.
> 
>> I also share that hope, because Debian works well, I simply left it
>> because I want GNU and a rolling release distro.
> 
> You could track Debian testing [1] as I did for twenty years. It's a
> rolling release in which software is guaranteed to build on all
> official machine types.
> 
> For the hardy, there is also Debian unstable. [2] That's kind of what
> you are getting with Guix, although the latter is a lot more stable
> and has dramatically less danger of data loss.
> 
> [1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting
> [2] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable
> 
>> I would be satisfied if Guix System manages to use some desktops on a
>> basic level, simply to use it for the daily needs.
> 
> Gnome 3 seems to be reasonably well supported on my family's
> computers, which run Guix.
> 
>> I am learning to be satisfied with the basics.
> 
> Welcome to the club. May your freedom serve as compensation for your toils.
> 
>> It would be interesting if the gdm display manager in MATE desktop would
>> work, if somebody updates the MATE desktop to the version 1.27 (now 1.24.1).
> 
> GDM should offer a MATE session in the login screen when both are
> installed, but I haven't tried.
> 
> Thanks for sticking with us!
> 
> Kind regards
> Felix

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