Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[Christopher Baines]

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Hey,

So this is something that might have come up in discussion once or
twice, but I've now got around to actually building a prototype.

You can see it here: http://prototype-guix-weekly-news.cbaines.net/

Now that I've actually spent some time implementing something, I feel
like this has led to more questions than I've answered. Could this be a
useful thing, and if so why, and to whom? Is weekly the right cadence?
What information should be included? Could it be available in multiple
languages? I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who has any
thoughts on the above topics.

One thought I've had is that whatever the cadence (1 week, 2 weeks, a
month, ...), it should be stuck to, and importantly, this burden should
be automated so it isn't incurred by someone.

For example, this post [1] just includes a bunch of data extracted from
the Guix Data Service about the period in question, and a default
paragraph. Publishing this, or something like it could be completely
automated. Whereas, on this post, I've added some content, and set a
custom summary.

1: http://prototype-guix-weekly-news.cbaines.net/en_US/2019/41.html
2: http://prototype-guix-weekly-news.cbaines.net/en_US/2019/42.html

Regarding the data taken from the Guix Data Service, that probably needs
more thinking about. The list new packages for most weeks is rather too
long, so maybe this needs to be abbreviated in some way. Also, the
version changes list doesn't seem very useful, so maybe that should be
summarised or removed.

Let me know what you think, and also let me know if this is something
you'd be interested in helping out with!

Thanks,

Chris

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Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[L p R n d n]

Hello,

Thanks for the work and the proposal! :)

I find it very interesting! As Guix is somewhat (?) a rolling release,
having a regular source of news and progress report would be very
welcome, I think. It lowers the level of commitment needed to follow the
guix project, specially for newcomers, less technical users and/or
people just waiting for the right moment to jump in. Currently people
need to , at least, subscribe (and read the mailing list) and check
regularly on git to know what's happening.

As for the cadence, I'm not really sure. 1 Month seems nice because it
gives probably enough time for people to write one or two sentences on
whats happening without to much of a burden for each post. Or if we go
for a weekly post, I think we should stick with automatic posts. I fear,
human written informations (highlights) would be lost in the flow, otherwise.
Could we use guix pull --news datas here?

One little thing that could be nice, IMHO, is to add the last commit
used for the diff to let people pull from it. Or even a full copy-patable
'guix pull commit=...'. And if, the message is posponed 24h (or anything
convenient) after the commit has been pushed, it could be a handy way
for users to pull from a recent commit, yet with (probably) substitutes.
What do you think?

Have a nice day

L  p r n  d n

Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[Christopher Baines]

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L p R n d n <guix@lprndn.info> writes:

> As for the cadence, I'm not really sure. 1 Month seems nice because it
> gives probably enough time for people to write one or two sentences on
> whats happening without to much of a burden for each post. Or if we go
> for a weekly post, I think we should stick with automatic posts. I fear,
> human written informations (highlights) would be lost in the flow,
> otherwise.

I was definately thinking about monthly, some other projects do that
successfully. Maybe both could work as well, the monthly post could
almost be a digest.

> Could we use guix pull --news datas here?

Yeah, I was thinking about this too. I might try and get the data in to
the Guix Data Service, at which point it'll be trivial to pull in to the
posts.

> One little thing that could be nice, IMHO, is to add the last commit
> used for the diff to let people pull from it. Or even a full copy-patable
> 'guix pull commit=...'. And if, the message is posponed 24h (or anything
> convenient) after the commit has been pushed, it could be a handy way
> for users to pull from a recent commit, yet with (probably) substitutes.
> What do you think?

So currently there a link at the bottom of the posts: "View comparison
data", which links to the Guix Data Service page where the data is
fetched from, and that does give the commit (at least in the short
form).

But yeah, adding the full commit to the post sounds like a good idea.

Thanks,

Chris

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Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[Pjotr Prins]

On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 12:19:42PM +0000, Christopher Baines wrote:
> 1: http://prototype-guix-weekly-news.cbaines.net/en_US/2019/41.html
> 2: http://prototype-guix-weekly-news.cbaines.net/en_US/2019/42.html

I think it would be useful to show a rolling report of upgraded/added
packages. We used to have the mailing list for that and now debbugs.

A simple page that can be reloaded to see the latest with version info
and link outs to the builds would be rather useful. Then, on a weekly
basis, create an overiew.

Not only good for humans, also good for search engines. I find the
current package list https://guix.gnu.org/packages/ pretty useful, but
I would like a search function because one keeps clicking to find a
certain package.

May also be an idea to provide links throught the guix CLI, such as

  https://guix.gnu.org/packages/alsa-lib-1.1.9/

Pj.

Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[Pierre Neidhardt]

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Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> writes:

> Not only good for humans, also good for search engines. I find the
> current package list https://guix.gnu.org/packages/ pretty useful, but
> I would like a search function because one keeps clicking to find a
> certain package.

There is such a search function here:

https://hpc.guix.info/browse

Would be nice to port it to guix.gnu.org.

-- 
Pierre Neidhardt
https://ambrevar.xyz/

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Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[Christopher Baines]

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Pierre Neidhardt <mail@ambrevar.xyz> writes:

> Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> writes:
>
>> Not only good for humans, also good for search engines. I find the
>> current package list https://guix.gnu.org/packages/ pretty useful, but
>> I would like a search function because one keeps clicking to find a
>> certain package.
>
> There is such a search function here:
>
> https://hpc.guix.info/browse
>
> Would be nice to port it to guix.gnu.org.

Indeed. It seems a bit broken for some reason. I've seen it working in
the past. I get the following error when I go to the page for a package.

  Uh-oh...

  The package is gone!

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Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello!

Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> skribis:

> Pierre Neidhardt <mail@ambrevar.xyz> writes:
>
>> Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> writes:
>>
>>> Not only good for humans, also good for search engines. I find the
>>> current package list https://guix.gnu.org/packages/ pretty useful, but
>>> I would like a search function because one keeps clicking to find a
>>> certain package.
>>
>> There is such a search function here:
>>
>> https://hpc.guix.info/browse
>>
>> Would be nice to port it to guix.gnu.org.
>
> Indeed. It seems a bit broken for some reason. I've seen it working in
> the past. I get the following error when I go to the page for a package.
>
>   Uh-oh...
>
>   The package is gone!

Thanks for the heads-up, this is now fixed.

It turned out to be due to a stale
/var/cache/guix/web/packages.json.lock file, which would prevent
hpcguix-web from updating its ‘package.json’ file, which in turn would
lead to the error above.

I’ll update the activation snippet of hpcguix-web to remove that lock
file.

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[Christopher Baines]

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Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> writes:

> On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 12:19:42PM +0000, Christopher Baines wrote:
>> 1: http://prototype-guix-weekly-news.cbaines.net/en_US/2019/41.html
>> 2: http://prototype-guix-weekly-news.cbaines.net/en_US/2019/42.html
>
> I think it would be useful to show a rolling report of upgraded/added
> packages. We used to have the mailing list for that and now debbugs.

That sounds like something that should be possible with the Guix Data
Service, I've added a timeline style table for package versions on a
branch (e.g. [1]), and it's possible to compare revisions to see the
changes, but it should be possible to construct a page that gives the
changes for multiple revisions.

1: http://data.guix.gnu.org/repository/1/branch/master/package/guix

> A simple page that can be reloaded to see the latest with version info
> and link outs to the builds would be rather useful. Then, on a weekly
> basis, create an overiew.

So the Guix Data Service doesn't currently know about builds, but this
is something I'm looking to change [2], as it opens lots of new
possibilities. Including creating a page as you describe.

2: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2019-10/msg00467.html

> Not only good for humans, also good for search engines. I find the
> current package list https://guix.gnu.org/packages/ pretty useful, but
> I would like a search function because one keeps clicking to find a
> certain package.

So as Pierre points out, there is the Guix-HPC package search. The Guix
Data Service also contains a search function (e.g. [3]).

3: http://data.guix.gnu.org/repository/1/branch/master/latest-processed-revision/packages

If there's a need to keep the website as static content, maybe the
JavaScript approach used by the Guix-HPC site could be used on the Guix
Website. It should also be possible to use the Guix Data Service
information for a search feature.

Otherwise, maybe there could be a search box on the Guix Website, but it
links to packages.guix.gnu.org, which is a package search service (which
doesn't have to be part of the static website).

> May also be an idea to provide links throught the guix CLI, such as
>
>   https://guix.gnu.org/packages/alsa-lib-1.1.9/

What were you thinking people might use this for?

Thanks,

Chris

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Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[Pjotr Prins]

On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 08:36:46AM +0000, Christopher Baines wrote:
> > Not only good for humans, also good for search engines. I find the
> > current package list https://guix.gnu.org/packages/ pretty useful, but
> > I would like a search function because one keeps clicking to find a
> > certain package.
> 
> So as Pierre points out, there is the Guix-HPC package search. The Guix
> Data Service also contains a search function (e.g. [3]).
> 
> 3: http://data.guix.gnu.org/repository/1/branch/master/latest-processed-revision/packages

A typical user won't find that.

> If there's a need to keep the website as static content, maybe the
> JavaScript approach used by the Guix-HPC site could be used on the Guix
> Website. It should also be possible to use the Guix Data Service
> information for a search feature.
> 
> Otherwise, maybe there could be a search box on the Guix Website, but it
> links to packages.guix.gnu.org, which is a package search service (which
> doesn't have to be part of the static website).
> 
> > May also be an idea to provide links throught the guix CLI, such as
> >
> >   https://guix.gnu.org/packages/alsa-lib-1.1.9/
> 
> What were you thinking people might use this for?

Speaking for myself: I would use it to go to CI. We do have additional
information in that way. But yeah.

Pj.

Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[zimoun]

Hi,

To complement, some monthly information about debbugs should be nice
too; maybe provided by Mumi.
Some time ago [1] Pjotr proposed something like:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
Summary

    Status
        31 Outstanding
        18 Resolved
    Severity
        49 Normal bugs
    Classification
        22 Patch Available
        9 Unclassified

Patches older than 1 week:

gnu: mumble: Build with 'murmur' server component.  Modified 13 days ago;
gnu: Add blists.                                    Modified 13 days ago;
gnu: Add lush2.                                     Modified 13 days ago;
etc.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

And maybe
 - 5 pointers to easy bugs
 - 5 pointer to long standing bugs
etc.


All the best,
simon


[1] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2017-02/msg01139.html

Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[Christopher Baines]

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zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> writes:

> To complement, some monthly information about debbugs should be nice
> too; maybe provided by Mumi.
> Some time ago [1] Pjotr proposed something like:
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> Summary
>
>     Status
>         31 Outstanding
>         18 Resolved
>     Severity
>         49 Normal bugs
>     Classification
>         22 Patch Available
>         9 Unclassified
>
> Patches older than 1 week:
>
> gnu: mumble: Build with 'murmur' server component.  Modified 13 days ago;
> gnu: Add blists.                                    Modified 13 days ago;
> gnu: Add lush2.                                     Modified 13 days ago;
> etc.
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> And maybe
>  - 5 pointers to easy bugs
>  - 5 pointer to long standing bugs
> etc.

...

> [1] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2017-02/msg01139.html

That sounds good to me. I haven't worked with data in Debbugs much
before, so if anyone knows how to easily get this data, that would be
great.

Otherwise, it's probably possible to get something working by parsing
the web pages, and possibly using the SOAP interface.

Thanks,

Chris

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Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[Christopher Baines]

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Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> writes:

> On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 08:36:46AM +0000, Christopher Baines wrote:
>> > Not only good for humans, also good for search engines. I find the
>> > current package list https://guix.gnu.org/packages/ pretty useful, but
>> > I would like a search function because one keeps clicking to find a
>> > certain package.
>>
>> So as Pierre points out, there is the Guix-HPC package search. The Guix
>> Data Service also contains a search function (e.g. [3]).
>>
>> 3: http://data.guix.gnu.org/repository/1/branch/master/latest-processed-revision/packages
>
> A typical user won't find that.

I think that's good. My view of the typical user of that page is someone
writing software, or after data about Guix packages. But maybe a search
interface for Guix packages can be built that's aimed at regular users
of Guix, but fetches data from the Guix Data Service.

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Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi there!

Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> skribis:

> So this is something that might have come up in discussion once or
> twice, but I've now got around to actually building a prototype.
>
> You can see it here: http://prototype-guix-weekly-news.cbaines.net/

I think this is great!

I second the suggestion that Lprndn made: it should be quite easy to
include news entries using ‘channel-news-for-commit’ from (guix
channels).

I also second the suggestion made by zimoun: recently closed bugs could
be automatically extracted using Guile-Debbugs (for a while I thought
‘guix pull --news’ could do that but now I think it may create too much
“noise”.)

As for the cadence, I don’t have any preference.  Weekly could work.  We
should make it easy for people to contribute snippets, perhaps via the
web interface and with very lightweight moderation.

Thanks!

Ludo’.

Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[Christopher Baines]

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Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:

> Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> skribis:
>
>> So this is something that might have come up in discussion once or
>> twice, but I've now got around to actually building a prototype.
>>
>> You can see it here: http://prototype-guix-weekly-news.cbaines.net/
>
> I think this is great!

That's good :)

> I second the suggestion that Lprndn made: it should be quite easy to
> include news entries using ‘channel-news-for-commit’ from (guix
> channels).
>
> I also second the suggestion made by zimoun: recently closed bugs could
> be automatically extracted using Guile-Debbugs (for a while I thought
> ‘guix pull --news’ could do that but now I think it may create too much
> “noise”.)

Awesome, I'll have a look at these things soon.

> As for the cadence, I don’t have any preference.  Weekly could work.  We
> should make it easy for people to contribute snippets, perhaps via the
> web interface and with very lightweight moderation.

Yep, with respect to contributing content, it would be good to make it
really easy. I was also thinking an IRC bot could maybe be used, so you
message it the content, and it somehow makes it appear in the news
entry.

Thanks for taking a look,

Chris

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Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[Ludovic Courtès]

Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> skribis:

> Yep, with respect to contributing content, it would be good to make it
> really easy. I was also thinking an IRC bot could maybe be used, so you
> message it the content, and it somehow makes it appear in the news
> entry.

Oh, that’d be fun.

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[sirgazil]

Hi, Christopher.


---- On Sun, 03 Nov 2019 07:19:42 -0500 Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> wrote ----

 > Hey, 
 >  
 > So this is something that might have come up in discussion once or 
 > twice, but I've now got around to actually building a prototype. 
 >  
 > You can see it here: http://prototype-guix-weekly-news.cbaines.net/ 
 >  
 > Now that I've actually spent some time implementing something, I feel 
 > like this has led to more questions than I've answered. Could this be a 
 > useful thing, and if so why, and to whom? Is weekly the right cadence? 
 > What information should be included? Could it be available in multiple 
 > languages? I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who has any 
 > thoughts on the above topics. 

I like the idea and I think it would be useful for people to see that the project is in active development.

Personally, I find useful the lists of packages, and I think I'd like to see the number of new, removed and changed packages at the beginning of the news entry, plus bug activity (as others have already suggested).

I have one question, though; couldn't these news be posted as entries in the current blog, tagged as "News" entries?


---
https://sirgazil.bitbucket.io/

Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[Christopher Baines]

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sirgazil <sirgazil@zoho.com> writes:

> ---- On Sun, 03 Nov 2019 07:19:42 -0500 Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> wrote ----
>
>  > Hey,
>  >
>  > So this is something that might have come up in discussion once or
>  > twice, but I've now got around to actually building a prototype.
>  >
>  > You can see it here: http://prototype-guix-weekly-news.cbaines.net/
>  >
>  > Now that I've actually spent some time implementing something, I feel
>  > like this has led to more questions than I've answered. Could this be a
>  > useful thing, and if so why, and to whom? Is weekly the right cadence?
>  > What information should be included? Could it be available in multiple
>  > languages? I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who has any
>  > thoughts on the above topics.
>
> I like the idea and I think it would be useful for people to see that
> the project is in active development.

Great :)

> Personally, I find useful the lists of packages, and I think I'd like
> to see the number of new, removed and changed packages at the
> beginning of the news entry, plus bug activity (as others have already
> suggested).

Cool, I'll have a look at adding this.

> I have one question, though; couldn't these news be posted as entries
> in the current blog, tagged as "News" entries?

Right, that's something I didn't really consider.

Thinking about it now, I think it's worth considering though. What
advantages and disadvantages do you think they'd be for integrating this
in to the website?

For advantages, I can think of:

 - Easier to have a consistent visual style
 - Easier to provide a combined Atom feed for regular and weekly posts

As for disadvantages:

 - Might make the website more complicated, doing partially automated
   weekly news stuff as well

I know you've worked with the website lots, so I'd be really interested
in your thoughts on how best to manage this. It would be interesting to
get the input of others who've worked on the website as well (maybe
Ludo?).

Thanks,

Chris

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Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[sirgazil]

---- On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 14:52:25 -0500 Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> wrote ----

 > 
 > sirgazil <sirgazil@zoho.com> writes: 
 >  
 > > ---- On Sun, 03 Nov 2019 07:19:42 -0500 Christopher Baines <mail@cbaines.net> wrote ---- 

[...]

 > > I have one question, though; couldn't these news be posted as entries 
 > > in the current blog, tagged as "News" entries? 
 >  
 > Right, that's something I didn't really consider. 
 >  
 > Thinking about it now, I think it's worth considering though. What 
 > advantages and disadvantages do you think they'd be for integrating this 
 > in to the website? 
 >  
 > For advantages, I can think of: 
 >  
 >  - Easier to have a consistent visual style 
 >  - Easier to provide a combined Atom feed for regular and weekly posts 

Yes, I was thinking about these too. People already subscribed to Guix blog wouldn't have to subscribe to another news feed.


 > As for disadvantages: 
 >  
 >  - Might make the website more complicated, doing partially automated 
 >  weekly news stuff as well 

No, I mean, your news application could be independent of the static website code in https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/guix-artwork.git. But I was thinking that maybe it could push the generated news to the posts directory in guix-artwork.git so that  your application wouldn't have to worry about the presentation part...

Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello,

sirgazil <sirgazil@zoho.com> skribis:

>  > > I have one question, though; couldn't these news be posted as entries 
>  > > in the current blog, tagged as "News" entries? 
>  >  
>  > Right, that's something I didn't really consider. 
>  >  
>  > Thinking about it now, I think it's worth considering though. What 
>  > advantages and disadvantages do you think they'd be for integrating this 
>  > in to the website? 
>  >  
>  > For advantages, I can think of: 
>  >  
>  >  - Easier to have a consistent visual style 
>  >  - Easier to provide a combined Atom feed for regular and weekly posts 
>
> Yes, I was thinking about these too. People already subscribed to Guix blog wouldn't have to subscribe to another news feed.
>
>
>  > As for disadvantages: 
>  >  
>  >  - Might make the website more complicated, doing partially automated 
>  >  weekly news stuff as well 
>
> No, I mean, your news application could be independent of the static website code in https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/guix-artwork.git. But I was thinking that maybe it could push the generated news to the posts directory in guix-artwork.git so that  your application wouldn't have to worry about the presentation part...

Sounds like an nice idea.

A potential concern for me is that these posts might be of relatively
“low quality” compared to the articles we usually publish (since they’d
be partially generated), and they would also outnumber those articles.
I wonder if this could leave a bad impression when visiting
guix.gnu.org/blog.

Or perhaps we just need to display those entries separately from those
that do not have the GWN tag or something?

WDYT?

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: Publishing news about Guix on a weekly basis

[sirgazil]

---- On Sat, 09 Nov 2019 12:33:38 -0500 Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> wrote ----

 > Hello, 
 >  
 > sirgazil <sirgazil@zoho.com> skribis: 
 >  
 > >  > > I have one question, though; couldn't these news be posted as entries 
 > >  > > in the current blog, tagged as "News" entries? 
 > >  > 
 > >  > Right, that's something I didn't really consider. 
 > >  > 
 > >  > Thinking about it now, I think it's worth considering though. What 
 > >  > advantages and disadvantages do you think they'd be for integrating this 
 > >  > in to the website? 
 > >  > 
 > >  > For advantages, I can think of: 
 > >  > 
 > >  >  - Easier to have a consistent visual style 
 > >  >  - Easier to provide a combined Atom feed for regular and weekly posts 
 > > 
 > > Yes, I was thinking about these too. People already subscribed to Guix blog wouldn't have to subscribe to another news feed. 
 > > 
 > > 
 > >  > As for disadvantages: 
 > >  > 
 > >  >  - Might make the website more complicated, doing partially automated 
 > >  >  weekly news stuff as well 
 > > 
 > > No, I mean, your news application could be independent of the static website code in https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/guix-artwork.git. But I was thinking that maybe it could push the generated news to the posts directory in guix-artwork.git so that  your application wouldn't have to worry about the presentation part... 
 >  
 > Sounds like an nice idea. 
 >  
 > A potential concern for me is that these posts might be of relatively 
 > “low quality” compared to the articles we usually publish (since they’d 
 > be partially generated), and they would also outnumber those articles. 
 > I wonder if this could leave a bad impression when visiting 
 > guix.gnu.org/blog. 

Well, I actually think that that would be fine. I think the blog is appropriate for these kinds of publications. Maybe it's the articles which should have a special place in the website (and there would be blog posts announcing article publications).


 > Or perhaps we just need to display those entries separately from those 
 > that do not have the GWN tag or something? 

I don't know about that... :)