Re: Gender neutral documentation

[Wilson Bustos <wrbutros@gmail.com>]

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El July 30, 2019 10:10:21 PM UTC, Wilson Bustos <wrbutros@gmail.com>
escribió:
>>Hello everyone!
>>I would like to help to make guix packages,
>I'm also reading documentation and watching videos about this.
>>
>>But I have some questions.
>>1- Do you have some document which explain what means 'gender neutral'
>>documentation.
>>and how that works in different languages such as Spanish?
>>

> The use of the feminine gender as neutral in the Spanish translation is
intended as explained here:
https://guix.gnu.org/manual/es/html_node/Envio-de-parches.html#DOCF40

Thank you so much! that article resolve really well my question!

My other question is:
Are you the only person who translate in Spanish?

- If I help you with some parts have I to sent it to you first?
I ask this because I'm not sure if I can apply all the logic behind the neo
Spanish rules that you apply,

- This rules are also to translate the package description? or only for the
main documentation?


El mar., 30 jul. 2019 a las 19:34, Miguel (<rosen644835@gmail.com>)
escribió:

> El July 30, 2019 10:10:21 PM UTC, Wilson Bustos <wrbutros@gmail.com>
> escribió:
> >Hello everyone!
> >I would like to help to make guix packages,
> >I'm also reading documentation and watching videos about this.
> >
> >But I have some questions.
> >1- Do you have some document which explain what means 'gender neutral'
> >documentation.
> >and how that works in different languages such as Spanish?
> >
>
> The use of the feminine gender as neutral in the Spanish translation is
> intended as explained here:
> https://guix.gnu.org/manual/es/html_node/Envio-de-parches.html#DOCF40
>
> >2- Reading the the Spanish version of the GNU manual in several pages
> >like
> >this one:
> >
> https://guix.gnu.org/manual/es/html_node/Caracteristicas.html#Caracter_00edsticas
> >
> >Has female sentence instead a 'normal' - 'neutral' sentence.
> >LIKE: `Opera en los perfiles de usuaria, y puede ser usada *con
> >privilegios
> >de usuaria normal*.`
> >
> >which say 'usuaria' to refer to the user, but that words is only used
> >to
> >refer to a woman.
> >but 'usuario' can be used to refer to a man or woman.
>
> As written in the footnote, It's perfectly reasonable to say in Spanish
> "la persona" and "las personas" (person/people in English), whose
> grammatical gender is feminine, to refer anyone without making any
> reference to their preferred gender, so it should be any problem to use
> that grammatical gender instead of the usual "neutral" one. From Latin's
> neutral case we have words like "el/la estudiante", "el/la marchante [de
> arte]", but the selection of the masculine as the default/neutral form is
> arguably biased towards one end.
>
> >Using this all the time it becomes confusing to read for me, due to
> >this I
> >change to the english manual.
>
> I understand that it can be tiresome, specially if you've been socialized
> as a male as I've been. On the other hand, more than a half of the Spanish
> speakers don't have to make any effort in order to understand it. I suppose
> that the same effort probably have been the done (usually beforehand) by
> people socialized as females when they read a document claiming
> (implicitly, as any language construct) that "usuario" applies to them too,
> but I only have anecdotical evidence... and the fact that women are really
> underrepresented (at least) in the development and free software community,
> so I try to take a feminist stance as my grain of sand to move this actual
> mountain.
>
> >I completely respect your job I want to be part of the community and
> >help,
> >I know this is a really delicate topic and I don't want to make a flame
> >war
> >or something like that.
>
> My approach is far from perfect: there are people who don't identify
> neither as male nor female, so the dissonance is still there, but I'm open
> to any new idea but using male gender as neutral one for the reasons I
> exposed there and here.
>
> Personally, I think it needs to be openly talked, it shouldn't be a flame
> war each time somebody mentions it. The conflict is already there, not
> speaking "about the elephant" doesn't make it disappear and only delays the
> possible solutions.
>
> Best regards,
> Miguel
> Hello, Wilson!
>
> Thank you for your interest in this awesome community. From my side, I've
> been taking more than expected to finish the translation and send some
> other patches, sorry for that. I hope to do it soon, but I only can answer
> with my phone at this moment.
>
> I'll try to answer your questions inline, let's see...
>

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