Re: Concerns/questions around Software Heritage Archive

[Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com>]

Hi MSavoritias,

On lun., 18 mars 2024 at 13:47, MSavoritias <email@msavoritias.me> wrote:

> 1.
>
> You seem to be misunderstanding the statement here that was said.
>
> What you can do legally and what you can do socially are not always the 
> same thing.

I do not read where I wrote something like that but anyway.

A program is free software if the program's users have the four
essential freedoms: [1]

  0. The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose.
  1. The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does
     your computing as you wish. Access to the source code is a precondition
     for this. 
  2. The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help others.
  3. The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to
     others. By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to
     benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a precondition
     for this.

All is about the philosophy of “free software”.

1: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html


> As advice for the future when somebody says a concern or wish they have, 
> your first statement shouldn't be "but its legal" because that 
> completely dismisses any constructive discussion that could be done.

Again, I am not arguing about “legal” something.  Instead, I am pointing
that this wish does not match the principles of “free software”.

If you accept that the software you create is “free software” then you
cannot complain if this “free software” is used in some contexts that
you consider unethical.

That’s the double sword of “free software”.

Do I consider LLMs as something unethical?  I think yes: most AI appears
to me unethical but that’s another story (rooting my arguments in
arguments about energy [2,3,4]).

2: https://social.sciences.re/@zimoun/112082437445032973
3: https://social.sciences.re/@zimoun/112039562095800532
4: https://social.sciences.re/@zimoun/112038609631116527


> What is in question here is whether Software Heritage respects people 
> enough to do the right thing and respect their wishes without getting 
> lawyers/legal involved.

Again, this is an incorrect frame, IMHO.  Software Heritage (SWH) do the
things you granted them to do.  SWH respects the “ethical” definition of
“free software”.

Again, do I think that feeding LLM after publishing a statement for LLM
code is a good move?  I do not know…  Does it break my ethical values?
Maybe…  Can I complain about my contributions to “free software” reused
in a way that I might consider unethical?  No.

5: https://www.softwareheritage.org/2024/02/28/responsible-ai-with-starcoder2/
6: https://www.softwareheritage.org/2023/10/19/swh-statement-on-llm-for-code/


> Besides with the way you are framing Free Software as not respecting any 
> social rules then that makes Free Software not attractive which is the 
> opposite of what we are trying to do here :)

I do not know what are the “social rules” of “free software”.  At best,
I understand the social rules of a community working on free software.

And this community is far to be an homogeneous whole with clear social
rules.  These social rules vary and the only shared denominator is the
“free software” principles defined by four freedoms.

The only question might be: by allowing ingested source code to be used
to train LLM, is Software Heritage aligned with the values that the Guix
community promote?

To be honest, I cannot answer to that question in a hurry.


> 2.
>
>  > Somehow, a Content-Addressed system is designed around immutable 
> > content. And if one know how to implement a Content-Addressed system 
> > relying on mutable content, I would be very interested to know more 
> > about it.
>
> Please refrain from doing such remarks. Nobody here suggested anything 
> that you mention here and you effectively devalue the discussion by 
> arguing like this and frame other people as stupid.

I will not refrain to say: Talk is cheap!

Positions about the situation with “rewrite history” cannot be a
discussion about opinions but it needs to be rooted in how it
technically works and what does it mean Content-addressed system.


> 3.
>
> You may disagree with this sure, but shutting down the discussion 
> because nobody wrote the code for you is very elitist of you.

We are speaking about which discussion because I am lost.  About LLM or
about “rewrite history”?

About LLM, see point #1.

About “rewrite history”, see point #2


> 4.
>
>  > This language is not acceptable on Guix channel of communication.
>
> Calling out transphobia it is very much accepted here actually :)

No it is not.  Because it is a bold conclusion.

I am asking that the Guix project rewrite right now its history:
changing my identity ’zimoun’ to my identity ’Simon Tournier’.  Since
the Guix project will take the time to check, then I will claim: the
Guix project is French-phobic!

I ask you again to stop such language.  I respect your opinion but name
calling is not welcoming on Guix channels of communication.

Cheers,
simon