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From: Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin@fastmail.fm>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: ELPA policy
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:52:39 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m2r3jwhcd4.fsf@fastmail.fm> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <86bnb06g7g.fsf@stephe-leake.org> (Stephen Leake's message of "Wed, 11 Nov 2015 03:25:07 -0600")

I do not consider myself competent enough in this area, but I'd like
to share some thoughts here:

For each package version there is a range (possibly sparse) of core
versions on which the package is supported (or just should work).

While the intent to move as much as possible in ELPA can be understood,
it leads to potentially more incompatibilities between important parts
which can provide API by themselves.

So, there should be some compromise between "latency" of new features
before they generally become available for use in packages and overall
core stability.  To me, it seems that the latter is more important and
it's better to keep infrastructure & library things in core, while
moving everything that uses them for a concrete purpose to ELPA.

If that in turn provides some API which others use, then we have
package interdependencies and that is probably OK (but can lead to
conflicts).  If sufficient amount of important packages use some API
and that API is rather mature, then the maintainer can decide to move
that in core to simplify dependency management.

So, I'd suggest that:

- Language features go straight into core (and people working on them
  / using them will have to use git version of Emacs until next
  release)

- New libraries which are not supposed to be in very common use go to
  ELPA first

- Then they are probably promoted to core as they get mature and more
  widely used - just to simplify their usage ("they will always be
  available").

- Major applications (like Gnus) and smaller ones always go to ELPA
  (most probably we should also bundle them in a tarball, but keep
  outside of the core).  A user can then decide whether to use git
  version of e.g. Gnus (from Elpa or private package repository) if she
  likes, or update to a released package version from Elpa (if core
  supports it), or just keep using the Elpa version she uses at the
  moment (which probably came together with current core).

- If such an application provides things useful for other
  applications, then it probably should extract that into a library to
  go through the cycle oulined above (elpa --maturity--> core).

The API / SPI notion can also be used to provide implementations
(backends) for different features which may have default simple
implementations in core and more advanced ones in packages.  A package
must somehow "register" itself as a candidate for being a service for
a concrete feature during installation.

Filipp



  reply	other threads:[~2015-11-11 13:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 274+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-11-04 12:39 streams are cool, you could stream virtually anything! Nicolas Petton
2015-11-04 15:50 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-04 16:59   ` Damien Cassou
2015-11-04 18:06   ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-11-04 19:17     ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-11-04 21:58     ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-04 23:20       ` T.V Raman
2015-11-04 23:31         ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-05  0:27         ` John Wiegley
2015-11-05  0:38           ` T.V Raman
2015-11-05  0:48             ` ELPA policy (Was: streams are cool, you could stream virtually anything!) John Wiegley
2015-11-05  0:52               ` T.V Raman
2015-11-08 17:18               ` ELPA policy Achim Gratz
2015-11-08 17:49                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-08 20:52                   ` Aaron Ecay
2015-11-09  3:42                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-09  3:51                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-09 11:15                         ` New ELPA policy proposal (was: ELPA policy) Oleh Krehel
2015-11-09 13:51                           ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-09 15:02                             ` New ELPA policy proposal Oleh Krehel
2015-11-09 16:22                               ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-09 15:41                             ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-11-09 15:50                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-09 16:13                                 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-11-09 21:50                                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-09 16:25                               ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-09 16:11                           ` New ELPA policy proposal (was: ELPA policy) Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10  7:26                             ` New ELPA policy proposal Oleh Krehel
2015-11-10 14:24                               ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 16:36                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-09 16:05                         ` ELPA policy Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-09 16:15                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-09 16:20                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-09 16:26                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-09 16:44                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-09 17:46                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-09 16:35                               ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-09 19:52                               ` John Wiegley
2015-11-09 20:17                                 ` Achim Gratz
2015-11-09 21:38                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 20:07                                     ` Achim Gratz
2015-11-09 21:51                                 ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-09 22:06                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-11-09 23:05                                     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-10 18:18                                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-11 15:11                                         ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-11 17:03                                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-09 23:47                                     ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-09 23:44                                   ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-09 23:42                                 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-09 23:52                                 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-11-10  0:04                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 18:06                                 ` Stephen Leake
     [not found]                                   ` <"<87lha5snji.fsf"@isaac.fritz.box>
     [not found]                                     ` <"<87d1vhsmuj.fsf"@isaac.fritz.box>
     [not found]                                       ` <"<878u65slue.fsf"@isaac.fritz.box>
     [not found]                                         ` <"<874mgtsjwn.fsf"@isaac.fritz.box>
2015-11-10 18:28                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 18:32                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10 18:35                                       ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 18:44                                         ` David Engster
2015-11-10 18:49                                           ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 20:00                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 15:15                                             ` xref and GNU Global (Re: ELPA policy) Nicolas Petton
2015-11-11 15:22                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 23:19                                                 ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 23:32                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12  7:07                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 23:12                                               ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 23:52                                                 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-12  7:05                                                   ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-10 19:15                                         ` ELPA policy Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10 22:44                                           ` xref CEDET (was ELPA policy) Stephen Leake
2015-11-10 21:52                                         ` ELPA policy Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10 18:37                                       ` David Engster
2015-11-10 19:57                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10 20:01                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10 20:19                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10 20:34                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10 21:16                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10 21:27                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10 22:40                                               ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-10 20:45                                           ` David Engster
2015-11-10 21:07                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10 18:43                                     ` David Engster
2015-11-10 18:52                                       ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 18:58                                         ` David Engster
2015-11-10 19:03                                           ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 19:20                                             ` David Engster
2015-11-10 19:43                                               ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 20:02                                                 ` David Engster
2015-11-10 20:24                                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 23:08                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-10 23:31                                                       ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11  0:32                                                         ` Drew Adams
2015-11-11  0:36                                                           ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11  9:25                                                             ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 13:52                                                               ` Filipp Gunbin [this message]
2015-11-11 21:22                                                                 ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-12 13:24                                                                   ` Filipp Gunbin
2015-11-12 17:11                                                                     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-12 19:17                                                                       ` Filipp Gunbin
2015-11-12 19:31                                                                         ` John Wiegley
2015-11-14 10:16                                                                         ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-12 19:52                                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-13 13:06                                                                       ` Filipp Gunbin
2015-11-14 10:30                                                                         ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-17 13:01                                                                           ` Filipp Gunbin
2015-11-17 16:18                                                                             ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-17 15:51                                                                           ` Tom Tromey
2015-11-11 17:02                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-11 17:24                                                                 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-12 14:02                                                                   ` Phillip Lord
2015-11-12 17:11                                                                     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-12 19:59                                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-13 21:58                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-14  1:15                                                                       ` JJ Asghar
2015-11-14 17:23                                                               ` Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo
2015-11-15 16:37                                                                 ` John Wiegley
     [not found]                                                             ` <<86bnb06g7g.fsf@stephe-leake.org>
     [not found]                                                               ` <<E1ZwYnH-0004b0-Gu@fencepost.gnu.org>
2015-11-11 17:47                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2015-11-11 19:23                                                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11 19:58                                                                     ` Drew Adams
2015-11-11 23:27                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-12  0:35                                                                       ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-12  0:42                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12 22:34                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-13  0:49                                                                           ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-12  6:49                                                                       ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-12 15:09                                                                         ` Drew Adams
2015-11-12 17:29                                                                           ` Alex Schröder
2015-11-12 22:33                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-14 10:33                                                                           ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-14 21:05                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]                                                                       ` <<86oaezemp9.fsf@stephe-leake.org>
     [not found]                                                                         ` <<E1Zx0QR-0004QE-Ga@fencepost.gnu.org>
2015-11-12 23:05                                                                           ` Drew Adams
2015-11-13  7:51                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-13 22:00                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]                                                                             ` <<E1ZxMOr-0004hb-VH@fencepost.gnu.org>
2015-11-13 23:03                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2015-11-14  1:44                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-15  9:28                                                                                   ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-11-15 15:44                                                                                     ` Drew Adams
2015-11-17 22:55                                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-17 23:17                                                                                         ` John Wiegley
2015-11-18  9:53                                                                                           ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-18 10:12                                                                                             ` David Kastrup
2015-11-14  9:57                                                                                 ` Achim Gratz
     [not found]                                                                   ` <<m2twosgx1m.fsf@Vulcan.attlocal.net>
     [not found]                                                                     ` <<E1Zwent-0000bG-9i@fencepost.gnu.org>
2015-11-12  0:22                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2015-11-10 23:01                                                   ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-10 22:53                                                 ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-10 19:17                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10 23:10                                           ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-10 22:52                                         ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-10 18:49                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10 18:54                                       ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 19:21                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10 19:26                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10 19:29                                             ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 20:06                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10 23:25                                           ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-10 23:23                                         ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-10 20:03                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10 23:16                                       ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-10 22:36                                     ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-10 22:54                                       ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 23:01                                         ` Drew Adams
2015-11-11  9:13                                           ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 14:58                                             ` Drew Adams
2015-11-09 18:22                       ` Achim Gratz
2015-11-09 18:45                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-09 18:58                           ` David Engster
2015-11-09 19:08                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-09 19:35                               ` David Engster
2015-11-09 20:12                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-09 19:53                           ` Rasmus
2015-11-09 19:58                           ` Achim Gratz
2015-11-05 17:06           ` streams and generators (was: streams are cool, you could stream virtually anything!) Michael Heerdegen
2015-11-05 22:36             ` streams and generators Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-04 23:34       ` streams are cool, you could stream virtually anything! Michael Heerdegen
2015-11-05  9:27         ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-05 11:26           ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-05 11:52             ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-05 16:31               ` raman
2015-11-05 16:48                 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-11-05 21:58                   ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-05 23:05                     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-05 23:34                       ` T.V Raman
2015-11-06  0:02                         ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-06  0:39                           ` T.V Raman
2015-11-05 23:52                       ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-11-06  2:19                         ` John Wiegley
2015-11-06  2:47                           ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-11-06 15:09                             ` Filipp Gunbin
2015-11-06 10:49                           ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-06 13:09                             ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-06 13:43                               ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-06 15:41                                 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-06 16:13                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-11-06 17:36                                   ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-06 10:47                         ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-06  2:08                   ` John Wiegley
2015-11-06 15:33                     ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-06 16:08                       ` John Wiegley
2015-11-06 17:12                         ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-05 23:06               ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-05 14:12             ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-11-04 17:00 ` Phillip Lord
2015-11-04 22:00   ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-05 12:28     ` Phillip Lord
2015-11-05 13:45       ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-05 15:15         ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-11-05 16:35       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-06  9:54         ` Phillip Lord
2015-11-04 17:57 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-11-04 22:00   ` Nicolas Petton
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-05-04 17:36 Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs Drew Adams
2020-05-05  7:25 ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-05 10:14   ` João Távora
2020-05-05 11:57     ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-05 13:07       ` João Távora
2020-05-05 14:47         ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-05 16:20           ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-06  4:45             ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-06 13:37               ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-06 14:04                 ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-07  2:44                   ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-07  3:14                     ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-07  7:23                       ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-07 13:42                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-08  2:47                           ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-08  3:38                             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-08  6:54                               ` ELPA policy (was: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs) Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-08 14:57                                 ` ELPA policy Stefan Monnier
2020-05-08 15:13                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-08 23:16                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-09  6:22                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-09  7:35                                         ` David Engster
2020-05-09  7:56                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-09  8:16                                             ` David Engster
2020-05-09  8:27                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-09  8:43                                                 ` David Engster
2020-05-09  9:43                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-09 10:13                                                     ` David Engster
2020-05-09 10:24                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-09 10:29                                                         ` David Engster
2020-05-09 10:41                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-09 11:15                                                             ` David Engster
2020-05-10  2:29                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-09 11:09                                                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-05-09 15:06                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-11 16:28                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-12  3:16                                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-12 15:00                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-08 22:34                                 ` Phillip Lord
2015-11-05  2:14 Proposed new core library: pl.el John Wiegley
2015-11-05  2:22 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-05  2:41   ` ELPA policy (was: Proposed new core library: pl.el) John Wiegley
2015-11-05  3:00     ` ELPA policy Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-05  9:08       ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-05 12:51       ` Michael Welsh Duggan
2015-11-05 13:49         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-05 14:41           ` Michael Welsh Duggan
2015-11-05 15:09           ` John Wiegley
2015-11-05 15:40             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-05 16:58               ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-05 17:45                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-06 21:37             ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-08 16:30               ` John Wiegley
2015-11-08 17:11                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-08 18:00                   ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-11-08 18:20                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-09  0:53                       ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-11-08 18:26                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-11-08 18:31                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-08 19:27                   ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-08 18:33                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-08 20:04                       ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-08 19:58                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-08 20:10                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-08 20:26                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-08 20:36                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-08 20:47                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-08 23:16                             ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-09  1:45                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-09  2:59                                 ` Yuri Khan
2015-11-08 19:55                 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-09  9:25                 ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-05  7:13     ` David Kastrup
2010-11-15 15:40 Julien Danjou
2010-11-15 17:09 ` Chong Yidong
2010-11-15 18:53   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2010-11-15 20:33     ` Chong Yidong
2010-11-15 21:06     ` Edward O'Connor
2010-11-16  3:26   ` Glenn Morris
2010-11-15 18:50 ` Tom Tromey
2010-11-15 22:10   ` Glenn Morris
2010-11-15 19:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-11-15 20:12   ` Chong Yidong
2010-11-15 21:59     ` Ted Zlatanov
2010-11-16 21:23 ` Richard Stallman
     [not found] <<87ziyuaqhl.fsf@petton.fr>

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