(unknown)

(unknown)

[Troy Hinckley]

Subject: Load order for elisp files
User-agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 28.0.50

I am trying to better understand the bootstrap process for Emacs and I
have run into a chicken and egg problem. When looking for where the
basic functions are defined, I can see that defmacro and defun are defined in
byte-run.el. However the code needed to evaluate a macro is in
backquote.el. But backquote.el uses defun, which is defined in
byte-run.el. Which of these files is loaded first, and how does Emacs
work around this apparent causality dilemma?

Re: none

[Stefan Monnier]

Troy Hinckley [2021-07-27 17:54:25] wrote:
> Subject: Load order for elisp files
> User-agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 28.0.50
> I am trying to better understand the bootstrap process for Emacs and I
> have run into a chicken and egg problem. When looking for where the
> basic functions are defined, I can see that defmacro and defun are defined in
> byte-run.el. However the code needed to evaluate a macro is in
> backquote.el.

Hmm... no, the code in `backquote.el` is only used to macro expand uses
of backquotes (which are commonly used in macro definitions but not in
all of them) and `byte-run.el` is indeed careful not to use backquotes,
specifically because that would break the bootstrap.

IIRC there are cases where we rely on even more subtle details, more
specifically, I seem to remember that we have functions whose body uses
macros that aren't yet defined when we define the function, and this
still works OK because this is done at a stage where macro expansion is
still lazy, so the macros in the body of the function are only expanded
when the function gets called (or when it gets byte-compiled) both of
which "happen" to take place later, when the corresponding macros have
been defined.


        Stefan

Re: none

[Troy Hinckley]

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byte-run.el does use backquotes

https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/lisp/emacs-lisp/byte-run.el#n122

However I had not thought about the impacts of lazy evaluation. I guess
this would require that you load the code twice: First with the
interpreter, then with the byte compiler, since you can't compile a macro
that has not been defined.

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 3:33 PM Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
wrote:

> Troy Hinckley [2021-07-27 17:54:25] wrote:
> > Subject: Load order for elisp files
> > User-agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 28.0.50
> > I am trying to better understand the bootstrap process for Emacs and I
> > have run into a chicken and egg problem. When looking for where the
> > basic functions are defined, I can see that defmacro and defun are
> defined in
> > byte-run.el. However the code needed to evaluate a macro is in
> > backquote.el.
>
> Hmm... no, the code in `backquote.el` is only used to macro expand uses
> of backquotes (which are commonly used in macro definitions but not in
> all of them) and `byte-run.el` is indeed careful not to use backquotes,
> specifically because that would break the bootstrap.
>
> IIRC there are cases where we rely on even more subtle details, more
> specifically, I seem to remember that we have functions whose body uses
> macros that aren't yet defined when we define the function, and this
> still works OK because this is done at a stage where macro expansion is
> still lazy, so the macros in the body of the function are only expanded
> when the function gets called (or when it gets byte-compiled) both of
> which "happen" to take place later, when the corresponding macros have
> been defined.
>
>
>         Stefan
>
>

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Re: none

[Stefan Monnier]

Troy Hinckley [2021-07-30 23:09:29] wrote:
> byte-run.el does use backquotes
> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/lisp/emacs-lisp/byte-run.el#n122
> However I had not thought about the impacts of lazy evaluation.

Right [except evaluation is not lazy, only macro-expansion is].

> I guess this would require that you load the code twice: First with
> the interpreter, then with the byte compiler, since you can't compile
> a macro that has not been defined.

Indeed: we first load the interpreted code when dumping the
`src/bootstrap-emacs` executable, which is then used to compile the
preloaded files (and the compiler), after which we load them again (but
in their compiled form) to dump the final `src/emacs` executable.

Note that lazy macro-expansion is only used for some of the preloaded
files (more specifically for those loaded before `macroexp.el` in
`lisp/loadup.el`, where you can also see some hackish workaround we have
to use at that time).


        Stefan

(unknown)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2024 23:02:10 -0400 (EDT)
> 
> branch: master
> commit 6b40d557c4a9a4152565c1a1b0da49a1aaaec84f
> Author: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
> Commit: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
> 
>     Port more notification senders to non-XDG systems
>     
>     * doc/lispref/os.texi (Desktop Notifications): Document that
>     `:timeout' is now implemented.
>     
>     * java/org/gnu/emacs/EmacsDesktopNotification.java
>     (EmacsDesktopNotification): New field delay.
>     (display1): Set delay on Android 8.0 and up.
>     
>     * lisp/erc/erc-desktop-notifications.el
>     (erc-notifications-notify): Call Android or Haiku notification
>     functions on those systems.
>     
>     * lisp/gnus/gnus-notifications.el (gnus-notifications-action)
>     (gnus-notification-close): Remove dismissed notifications from
>     the notification to message map.
>     (gnus-notifications-notify): Call android-notifications-notify
>     if possible.
>     
>     * src/androidselect.c (android_init_emacs_desktop_notification):
>     Update accordingly.
>     (android_notifications_notify_1): New argument TIMEOUT.
>     (Fandroid_notifications_notify): New argument QCtimeout.
>     (syms_of_androidselect) <QCtimeout>: New symbol.

This causes the following byte-compilation warning:

  In gnus-notification-close:
  gnus/gnus-notifications.el:91:36: Warning: Unused lexical argument `reason'

Re: none

[Po Lu]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> This causes the following byte-compilation warning:
>
>   In gnus-notification-close:
>   gnus/gnus-notifications.el:91:36: Warning: Unused lexical argument `reason'

Thanks, I'll fix this tomorrow, though you could also install the
obvious change now:

diff --git a/lisp/gnus/gnus-notifications.el b/lisp/gnus/gnus-notifications.el
index 9ef21c91627..9c524de8ec4 100644
--- a/lisp/gnus/gnus-notifications.el
+++ b/lisp/gnus/gnus-notifications.el
@@ -88,7 +88,7 @@ gnus-notifications-action
   ;; an action of theirs) are selected
   (assoc-delete-all id gnus-notifications-id-to-msg))
 
-(defun gnus-notification-close (id reason)
+(defun gnus-notification-close (id _reason)
   "Remove ID from the alist of notification identifiers to messages.
 REASON is ignored."
   (assoc-delete-all id gnus-notifications-id-to-msg))

Re: none

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> This causes the following byte-compilation warning:
>>
>>   In gnus-notification-close:
>>   gnus/gnus-notifications.el:91:36: Warning: Unused lexical argument `reason'
>
> Thanks, I'll fix this tomorrow, though you could also install the
> obvious change now:
>
> diff --git a/lisp/gnus/gnus-notifications.el b/lisp/gnus/gnus-notifications.el
> index 9ef21c91627..9c524de8ec4 100644
> --- a/lisp/gnus/gnus-notifications.el
> +++ b/lisp/gnus/gnus-notifications.el
> @@ -88,7 +88,7 @@ gnus-notifications-action
>    ;; an action of theirs) are selected
>    (assoc-delete-all id gnus-notifications-id-to-msg))
>  
> -(defun gnus-notification-close (id reason)
> +(defun gnus-notification-close (id _reason)
>    "Remove ID from the alist of notification identifiers to messages.
>  REASON is ignored."
>    (assoc-delete-all id gnus-notifications-id-to-msg))

I just did this; the name of the function was missing an "s", too.

(unknown)

[Gregory Heytings]

a29a3ad55d breaks the build of master with:

cedet/semantic/symref/list.el:35:2: Error: Wrong type argument: number-or-marker-p, nil

Re: none

[Manuel Giraud]

Gregory Heytings <gregory@heytings.org> writes:

> a29a3ad55d breaks the build of master with:
>
> cedet/semantic/symref/list.el:35:2: Error: Wrong type argument:
> number-or-marker-p, nil

Hi,

I also have this error for some hours now but a29a3ad55d does not seem
to be at fault.  I have the same error from building at 8e71e9b10333c.
(Sorry I don't have time now for a proper bisect).
-- 
Manuel Giraud

(unknown)

[Davin Pearson]

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I was wondering if you could make the following improvement to
GNU Emacs: Make it so that fonts with a nil for background-colour
have the fontification of the inner symbols shines through
to appear over higher layers, like so:

*abc* is fontified as a blue foreground with nil background

"*abc*" is fontified in light blue background with a black foreground
but should appear with a light blue background and a blue foreground.

Here is the Elisp code that I want the behaviour of which changed:

(set-face-foreground 'dmp-face--fg:blue "#000")
(set-face-background 'dmp-face--fg:blue nil)

("\\*.*\\*" 0 'dmp-face--fg:blue t)



-- 
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you.
I am only allowed my computer once per week
so that makes for a two-three week round trip in
getting back to you.

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Re: none

[Stefan Monnier]

> ("\\*.*\\*" 0 'dmp-face--fg:blue t)

Change the `t` above to `prepend` or `append`.


        Stefan

(unknown)

[Takesi Ayanokoji]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 392 bytes --]

Hi developers.

I translated GNU Emacs manual "The Emacs Edirot" from English to Japanese.

  Emacs-24.5: https://ayatakesi.github.io/#emacs-24.5-emacs
  Emacs-25.1: https://ayatakesi.github.io/#emacs-25.1-emacs

So, how should I take next action.
Submit it to somewhere, or else?
(Currently I am sharing it by GitHub.)

Any ideas?

Thanks.

---
Ayanokoji Takesi <ayanokoji.takesi@gmail.com>

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Re: none

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> "TA" == Takesi Ayanokoji <ayanokoji.takesi@gmail.com> writes:

TA> I translated GNU Emacs manual "The Emacs Edirot" from English to Japanese.

TA> So, how should I take next action. Submit it to somewhere, or else?
TA> (Currently I am sharing it by GitHub.)

This is a great contribution, Takesi, thank you! I'm not sure where other
languages go in our repository, since I don't see any others.

The only difficulty I can see will be maintaining this document to include
future changes, since few of us speak Japanese.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

(no subject)

[Luc Teirlinck]

Is there a reason why this-original-command, unlike this-command,
returns a non-nil value when no command is running?  The reason why
this originally annoyed me is no longer valid, so I do not need this
to be "fixed", but I thought that maybe it might just be due to an
oversight.  What about the patch below?  Grepping shows that
this-original-command, is only used in ido and cua.  Basically, I
believe that only Kim has ever used it.  What about the mini-patch
below?  I can install if desired.

===File ~/keyboard.c-diff===================================
*** keyboard.c	26 May 2005 10:40:35 -0500	1.826
--- keyboard.c	30 May 2005 17:14:15 -0500	
***************
*** 1522,1527 ****
--- 1522,1528 ----
  
        Vthis_command = Qnil;
        real_this_command = Qnil;
+       Vthis_original_command=Qnil;
  
        /* Read next key sequence; i gets its length.  */
        i = read_key_sequence (keybuf, sizeof keybuf / sizeof keybuf[0],
============================================================

Re: none

[Kim F. Storm]

Luc Teirlinck <teirllm@dms.auburn.edu> writes:

> Is there a reason why this-original-command, unlike this-command,
> returns a non-nil value when no command is running?  

It is an oversight.  Please install your patch.  Thanks.

>                                                      The reason why
> this originally annoyed me is no longer valid, so I do not need this
> to be "fixed", but I thought that maybe it might just be due to an
> oversight.  What about the patch below?  Grepping shows that
> this-original-command, is only used in ido and cua.  Basically, I
> believe that only Kim has ever used it.  

Maybe because until now, I'm the only one(?) who has seriously used
the new command remapping feature :-)

>                                          What about the mini-patch
> below?  I can install if desired.
>
> ===File ~/keyboard.c-diff===================================
> *** keyboard.c	26 May 2005 10:40:35 -0500	1.826
> --- keyboard.c	30 May 2005 17:14:15 -0500	
> ***************
> *** 1522,1527 ****
> --- 1522,1528 ----
>   
>         Vthis_command = Qnil;
>         real_this_command = Qnil;
> +       Vthis_original_command=Qnil;
>   
>         /* Read next key sequence; i gets its length.  */
>         i = read_key_sequence (keybuf, sizeof keybuf / sizeof keybuf[0],
> ============================================================
>
>

-- 
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk

None

[abrahamade]

m,emacs-bidi@gnu.org,emacs-devel@gnu.org,emacs-for-ns-announce@lists.princeton.edu,emacs-for-ns-users@lists.princeton.edu,emacs-rcp@amaunet.cs.uni-dortmund.de,emacs-rcp@ls6.cs.uni-dortmund.de,emeade@teknolust.com,emilio_tunon@nl.compuware.com, ew9xy3zqh@wsaj39r2qcu.org,ewrm7c4k@z61oazt9ou1iz4.org
From: abrahamade@themail.com
Subject: TRUSTED PARTNERSHIP
X-Priority: 3
Authorized-User: abrahamade@themail.com
IP-Address: 66.178.47.75
Reply-To: abrahamade@themail.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain
Message-Id: <200303070646798.SM00100@mail.TheMail.com>
Date: Fri,  7 Mar 2003 07:06:09 -0500

Dr. ABRAHAM ADESANYA
 Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation,
 Corporate Head Quater, 
 Falomo Shopping Complex, 
 Ikoyi, Lagos. 
 E-mail:abrahamade@themail.com
 
 
 STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL 
 
 The President/C.E.O.,
 
 Seeking for a Dedicated and Committed Partnership in a
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 this premise, we have no doubt in your ability to
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 amount,which will form the bedrock of an extensive
 business partnership in due course.
  
 In unfolding this proposal,I want to count on your
 status, as a respected executive of your company to
 believe that you will handle it with all sincerity and
 accord it absolute confidentiality that it deserves. 
 
 Being the secretary to the panel that is reviewing the
 award of past project that discovered this fund, I
 have been mandated to open a business relationship
 with you on this mutually beneficial opportunity. 
 
 This business involves the remittance of US$26.5
 million (Twenty Six Million, Five Hundred Thousand
 dollars) only into your bank account from our apex
 bank where this fund has been lying idle in a suspense
 account. The money accrued through deliberate
 over-invoicing of old project executed for the
 Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation by some
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 We have worked out this scheme to benefit us along
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 his/her nominated account with a view to traveling
 down to meet you thereafter so that we can have our
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 In the past, we did encounter a great loss from our
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 assumed to be a part payment of the contract sum
 amounting to US$8.625M (Eight million, six hundred and
 twenty five thousand dollars), into his account that
 he gave us.He however disappeared into thin air on our
 arrival at Zurich in Switzerland to collect our share.
 Series of attempt to contact him proved abortive and
 that is how we lost this whooping amount to the Swiss.
 
 We have now fully worked out the operational
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 and to forestall any hitch. If you would assist or
 participate in this deal, then please endeavor to get
 in touch with me immediately via my E-mail address as
 written above.
  
 In picking on you for this business, please note that
 your expertise has been taken into consideration, as
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 investment of our share of the fund in a viable and
 profitable venture in your country. 
 
 In the world over, bigger firms who bid for various
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 therefore entitled to receive the contract value. Be
 rest assured that this transaction is 100% risk free
 as there is actually no risk involved either now or in
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 circle. Given our level of commitment at the moment,we
 want to assure you that with full dedication on your
 part, the objective of having this fund remitted would
 have been realized within a period of two weeks.
 
 It is hereby expressly agreed in principle that at the
 end of the transaction, you will be entitled to 20% of
 the entire sum, which you are free to withdraw as soon
 as you confirm that the fund has been remitted into
 your account. 
 
 I am awaiting your response most urgently whether you
 are interested or not to enable me know the next move
 to make.
 
 Contact me directly on my Email address if you are
 interested with your company name/address and your
 personal tel/fax numbers.I shall forward my home
 address,telephone and fax numbers to you once you
 confirm your interest in assisting us.
  
 Thanks.
  
 Yours sincerely,
 
 Dr. ABRAHAM ADESANYA
 

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Re: iso-8859-1 and non-latin-1 chars

[Dave Love]

On querying a change, handa referred me to a thread which lead to it.
The archive loses threading info, sorry.

> Ok, I've just installed this change.
> 
> 2002-11-18  Kenichi Handa  <[13]handa@m17n.org>
> 
>         * language/cyrillic.el (cyrillic-iso-8bit): Make it safe.
> 
>         * language/european.el (iso-latin-1): Make it safe.
>         (iso-latin-2, iso-latin-3, iso-latin-4, iso-latin-5, iso-latin-8)
>         (iso-latin-9): Likewise.
> 
>         * language/greek.el (greek-iso-8bit): Make it safe.
> 
>         * language/hebrew.el (hebrew-iso-8bit): Make it safe.
> 
>         * language/lao.el (lao): Make it safe.
> 
>         * language/thai.el (thai-tis620): Make it safe.       

I think this is the wrong thing to do.  As rms said, it's a
user-visible change that affects more than Ispell.  It breaks the
principle that Emacs tries to avoid losing information in coding
conversions (whereas XEmacs readily trashes data).  If something uses
one of these encodings incorrectly now you can't recover the data as
you used to be able to.

Anyhow, if the issue is just Ispell, it's definitely the wrong fix.
ispell.el and similar stuff shouldn't send un-encodable text in the
first place.  (If `?' happens to be one of the extra word characters
for Ispell, you'll lose anyway.)

With the development source, you can easily fix what Stefan complained
about as follows.  There's more to it than that, though -- see the
comment in the diff.  I haven't had time to sort that out, though I
did make changes to Flyspell along similar lines.  That's easier,
since Flyspell already works word-wise (roughly), but of course you
likely run into problems displaying the choices without multilingual
menus.

[If you really wanted to fix such a thing just with a coding system
change, you could set up a scratch coding system for the job or
temporarily set a coding system property around the process setup.]

By the way, ispell.el in CVS isn't up-to-date with Stevens' version.

*** ispell.el.~1.133.~	Tue Nov 19 14:49:21 2002
--- ispell.el	Mon Nov 25 15:41:02 2002
***************
*** 1347,1364 ****
  	(or quietly
  	    (message "Checking spelling of %s..."
  		     (funcall ispell-format-word word)))
! 	(ispell-send-string "%\n")	; put in verbose mode
! 	(ispell-send-string (concat "^" word "\n"))
! 	;; wait until ispell has processed word
! 	(while (progn
! 		 (ispell-accept-output)
! 		 (not (string= "" (car ispell-filter)))))
! 	;;(ispell-send-string "!\n") ;back to terse mode.
! 	(setq ispell-filter (cdr ispell-filter)) ; remove extra \n
! 	(if (and ispell-filter (listp ispell-filter))
! 	    (if (> (length ispell-filter) 1)
! 		(error "Ispell and its process have different character maps")
! 	      (setq poss (ispell-parse-output (car ispell-filter)))))
  	(cond ((eq poss t)
  	       (or quietly
  		   (message "%s is correct"
--- 1347,1369 ----
  	(or quietly
  	    (message "Checking spelling of %s..."
  		     (funcall ispell-format-word word)))
! 	(if (and enable-multibyte-characters
! 		 (unencodable-char-position
! 		  0 (length word) (process-coding-system ispell-process)
! 		  nil word))
! 	    (setq poss (list word 1 nil nil))
! 	  (ispell-send-string "%\n")	; put in verbose mode
! 	  (ispell-send-string (concat "^" word "\n"))
! 	  ;; wait until ispell has processed word
! 	  (while (progn
! 		   (ispell-accept-output)
! 		   (not (string= "" (car ispell-filter)))))
! 	  ;;(ispell-send-string "!\n") ;back to terse mode.
! 	  (setq ispell-filter (cdr ispell-filter)) ; remove extra \n
! 	  (if (and ispell-filter (listp ispell-filter))
! 	      (if (> (length ispell-filter) 1)
! 		  (error "Ispell and its process have different character maps")
! 		(setq poss (ispell-parse-output (car ispell-filter))))))
  	(cond ((eq poss t)
  	       (or quietly
  		   (message "%s is correct"
***************
*** 2604,2609 ****
--- 2609,2628 ----
    (let (poss accept-list)
      (if (not (numberp shift))
  	(setq shift 0))
+     (if (and enable-multibyte-characters
+ 	     (fboundp 'unencodable-char-position))
+ 	;; Avoid sending un-encodable input to the process, which can
+ 	;; specifically confuse the current implementation.  Fixme: Do
+ 	;; it for 21.2 too.  Fixme: The implementation here needs
+ 	;; changing to check word-by-word (according to syntax tables,
+ 	;; not a fixed list of characters) from known positions in the
+ 	;; buffer, not not looking for matches of ispell output (which
+ 	;; may be inappropriately encoded, for instance) in the
+ 	;; original buffer.
+ 	(dolist (i (unencodable-char-position
+ 		    0 (length string) (process-coding-system ispell-process)
+ 		    (length string) string))
+ 	  (aset string i ?\ )))
      ;; send string to spell process and get input.
      (ispell-send-string string)
      (while (progn

Re: iso-8859-1 and non-latin-1 chars

[Dave Love]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> Emacs normally does warn when the coding system doesn't handle all the
> characters in the file.  Is there a common scenario where that warning
> is bypassed?

I don't know how common, but for example: broken code (Gnus at times,
I'd bet) or customizations (select Latin-1 for your BBDB database) and
C-x RET c.  Basically whenever the coding system is actually specified
rather than selected from the set of somehow-preferred coding systems.

Re: iso-8859-1 and non-latin-1 chars

[Dave Love]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> If you specify a coding system with C-x RET c, and it doesn't
> handle all the text, should Emacs warn about that?

I don't think so.  That would amount to a significant overhead on all
i/o, since C-x RET c just amounts to binding
coding-system-for-{read,write} around the invocation of the command.
Perhaps you could special-case it somehow in interactive use, but the
issue is most relevant to the other case -- when data are written by a
program with an inappropriate coding system.  You presumably can't do
anything about it for process output anyhow.

Is anyone actually taking care of the issues in Ispell/Flyspell?

Re: iso-8859-1 and non-latin-1 chars

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <E18MDdz-0005Mz-00@fencepost.gnu.org>, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>>  If you specify a coding system with C-x RET c, and it doesn't
>>  handle all the text, should Emacs warn about that?

>     I don't think so.  That would amount to a significant overhead on all
>     i/o, since C-x RET c just amounts to binding
>     coding-system-for-{read,write} around the invocation of the command.

> It could also bind a flag saying "do warn".

How about the attached change?  Shall I install it?

Notes on the change:

(1) I made a new variable coding-system-require-warning, and
universal-coding-system-argument binds it to t.

(2) If car of the arg DEFAULT-CODING-SYSTEM is t, it
indicates that select-safe-coding-system should not include
buffer-file-coding-system and most preferred coding system
in a list of coding systems tried by default.
Fwrite_region calls select-safe-coding-system in this way if
coding-system-require-warning is non-nil.

(3) Now a user can specify any coding system in
select-safe-coding-system on his risk.  At least, this is
necessary when an unsafe coding sysetm is specified by C-x
RET c.

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org


Index: lisp/ChangeLog
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/emacs/lisp/ChangeLog,v
retrieving revision 1.4625
diff -u -c -b -r1.4625 ChangeLog
*** lisp/ChangeLog	13 Dec 2002 00:40:52 -0000	1.4625
--- lisp/ChangeLog	13 Dec 2002 02:51:25 -0000
***************
*** 1,3 ****
--- 1,12 ----
+ 2002-12-13  Kenichi Handa  <handa@m17n.org>
+ 
+ 	* international/mule-cmds.el (universal-coding-system-argument):
+ 	Bind coding-system-require-warning to t.
+ 	(select-safe-coding-system): Handle t in the arg
+ 	DEFAULT-CODING-SYSTEM specially.  Use read-coding-system to read a
+ 	coding-system to allow users to specify unsafe coding system on
+ 	their risk.
+ 
  2002-12-13  Nick Roberts  <nick@nick.uklinux.net>
  
  	* gdb-ui.el: Improve documentation strings.
Index: lisp/international/mule-cmds.el
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/emacs/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el,v
retrieving revision 1.211
diff -u -c -b -r1.211 mule-cmds.el
*** lisp/international/mule-cmds.el	12 Dec 2002 00:51:31 -0000	1.211
--- lisp/international/mule-cmds.el	13 Dec 2002 02:51:30 -0000
***************
*** 305,310 ****
--- 305,311 ----
  
      (let ((coding-system-for-read coding-system)
  	  (coding-system-for-write coding-system)
+ 	  (coding-system-require-warning t)
  	  (current-prefix-arg prefix))
        (message "")
        (call-interactively cmd))))
***************
*** 604,610 ****
  
  Optional 3rd arg DEFAULT-CODING-SYSTEM specifies a coding system or a
  list of coding systems to be prepended to the default coding system
! list.
  
  Optional 4th arg ACCEPT-DEFAULT-P, if non-nil, is a function to
  determine the acceptability of the silently selected coding system.
--- 605,614 ----
  
  Optional 3rd arg DEFAULT-CODING-SYSTEM specifies a coding system or a
  list of coding systems to be prepended to the default coding system
! list.  However, if DEFAULT-CODING-SYSTEM is a list and the first
! element is t, the cdr part is used as the defualt coding system list,
! i.e. `buffer-file-coding-system' and the most prepended coding system
! is not used.
  
  Optional 4th arg ACCEPT-DEFAULT-P, if non-nil, is a function to
  determine the acceptability of the silently selected coding system.
***************
*** 624,634 ****
--- 628,644 ----
  	   (not (listp default-coding-system)))
        (setq default-coding-system (list default-coding-system)))
  
+   (let ((no-other-defaults nil))
+     (if (eq (car default-coding-system) t)
+ 	(setq no-other-defaults t
+ 	      default-coding-system (cdr default-coding-system)))
+ 
      ;; Change elements of the list to (coding . base-coding).
      (setq default-coding-system
  	  (mapcar (function (lambda (x) (cons x (coding-system-base x))))
  		  default-coding-system))
  
+     (unless no-other-defaults
        ;; If buffer-file-coding-system is not nil nor undecided, append it
        ;; to the defaults.
        (if buffer-file-coding-system
***************
*** 653,659 ****
  	 (not (assq preferred default-coding-system))
  	 (not (rassq base default-coding-system))
  	 (setq default-coding-system
! 	       (append default-coding-system (list (cons preferred base))))))
  
    (if select-safe-coding-system-accept-default-p
        (setq accept-default-p select-safe-coding-system-accept-default-p))
--- 663,670 ----
  	     (not (assq preferred default-coding-system))
  	     (not (rassq base default-coding-system))
  	     (setq default-coding-system
! 		   (append default-coding-system
! 			   (list (cons preferred base))))))))
  
    (if select-safe-coding-system-accept-default-p
        (setq accept-default-p select-safe-coding-system-accept-default-p))
***************
*** 821,840 ****
  		(mapcar (function (lambda (x) (princ "  ") (princ x)))
  			codings)
  		(insert "\n")
! 		(fill-region-as-paragraph pos (point)))))
  
  	  ;; Read a coding system.
! 	  (if safe
! 	      (setq codings (append safe codings)))
! 	  (let* ((safe-names (mapcar (lambda (x) (list (symbol-name x)))
! 				     codings))
! 		 (name (completing-read
  			(format "Select coding system (default %s): "
! 				(car codings))
! 			safe-names nil t nil nil
! 			(car (car safe-names)))))
! 	    (setq last-coding-system-specified (intern name)
! 		  coding-system last-coding-system-specified)))
  	(kill-buffer "*Warning*")
  	(set-window-configuration window-configuration)))
  
--- 832,850 ----
  		(mapcar (function (lambda (x) (princ "  ") (princ x)))
  			codings)
  		(insert "\n")
! 		(fill-region-as-paragraph pos (point)))
! 	      (insert "Or specify any other coding system
! on your risk of loosing the problematic characters.\n")))
  
  	  ;; Read a coding system.
! 	  (setq default-coding-system (or (car safe) (car codings)))
! 	  (setq coding-system
! 		(read-coding-system 
  		 (format "Select coding system (default %s): "
! 			 default-coding-system)
! 		 default-coding-system))
! 	  (setq last-coding-system-specified coding-system))
! 
  	(kill-buffer "*Warning*")
  	(set-window-configuration window-configuration)))
  
Index: src/ChangeLog
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/emacs/src/ChangeLog,v
retrieving revision 1.2994
diff -u -c -b -r1.2994 ChangeLog
*** src/ChangeLog	13 Dec 2002 02:35:34 -0000	1.2994
--- src/ChangeLog	13 Dec 2002 02:51:31 -0000
***************
*** 1,5 ****
--- 1,17 ----
  2002-12-13  Kenichi Handa  <handa@m17n.org>
  
+ 	* coding.c (coding_system_require_warning): New variable.
+ 	(syms_of_coding): DEFVAR it.
+ 
+ 	* coding.h (coding_system_require_warning): Extern it.
+ 
+ 	* fileio.c (choose_write_coding_system): Even if
+ 	Vcoding_system_for_write is non-nil, if
+ 	coding_system_require_warning is nonzero, call
+ 	Vselect_safe_coding_system_function.
+ 
+ 2002-12-13  Kenichi Handa  <handa@m17n.org>
+ 
  	* coding.c (Funencodable_char_position): Set pend correctly.
  
  2002-12-12  Jason Rumney  <jasonr@gnu.org>
Index: src/coding.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/emacs/src/coding.c,v
retrieving revision 1.265
diff -u -c -b -r1.265 coding.c
*** src/coding.c	13 Dec 2002 02:35:51 -0000	1.265
--- src/coding.c	13 Dec 2002 02:51:33 -0000
***************
*** 367,372 ****
--- 367,374 ----
  
  Lisp_Object Vselect_safe_coding_system_function;
  
+ int coding_system_require_warning;
+ 
  /* Mnemonic string for each format of end-of-line.  */
  Lisp_Object eol_mnemonic_unix, eol_mnemonic_dos, eol_mnemonic_mac;
  /* Mnemonic string to indicate format of end-of-line is not yet
***************
*** 7530,7535 ****
--- 7532,7546 ----
  
  The default value is `select-safe-coding-system' (which see).  */);
    Vselect_safe_coding_system_function = Qnil;
+ 
+   DEFVAR_BOOL ("coding-system-require-warning",
+ 	       &coding_system_require_warning,
+ 	       doc: /* Internal use only.
+ If non-nil, on writing a file, select-safe-coding-system-function is
+ called even if coding-system-for-write is non-nil.  The command
+ universal-coding-system-argument binds this variable to t temporarily.  */);
+   coding_system_require_warning = 0;
+ 
  
    DEFVAR_LISP ("char-coding-system-table", &Vchar_coding_system_table,
  	       doc: /* Char-table containing safe coding systems of each characters.
Index: src/coding.h
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/emacs/src/coding.h,v
retrieving revision 1.64
diff -u -c -b -r1.64 coding.h
*** src/coding.h	19 Jul 2002 14:27:01 -0000	1.64
--- src/coding.h	13 Dec 2002 02:51:33 -0000
***************
*** 705,710 ****
--- 705,714 ----
     system.  */
  extern Lisp_Object Vselect_safe_coding_system_function;
  
+ /* If nonzero, on writing a file, Vselect_safe_coding_system_function
+    is called even if Vcoding_system_for_write is non-nil.  */
+ extern int coding_system_require_warning;
+ 
  /* Coding system for file names, or nil if none.  */
  extern Lisp_Object Vfile_name_coding_system;
  
Index: src/fileio.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/emacs/src/fileio.c,v
retrieving revision 1.467
diff -u -c -b -r1.467 fileio.c
*** src/fileio.c	7 Dec 2002 21:39:50 -0000	1.467
--- src/fileio.c	13 Dec 2002 02:51:34 -0000
***************
*** 4624,4630 ****
--- 4624,4638 ----
    if (auto_saving)
      val = Qnil;
    else if (!NILP (Vcoding_system_for_write))
+     {
        val = Vcoding_system_for_write;
+       if (coding_system_require_warning
+ 	  && !NILP (Ffboundp (Vselect_safe_coding_system_function)))
+ 	/* Confirm that VAL can surely encode the current region.  */
+ 	val = call5 (Vselect_safe_coding_system_function,
+ 		     start, end, Fcons (Qt, Fcons (val, Qnil)),
+ 		     Qnil, filename);
+     }
    else
      {
        /* If the variable `buffer-file-coding-system' is set locally,

Re: iso-8859-1 and non-latin-1 chars

[Richard Stallman]

    Notes on the change:

    (1) I made a new variable coding-system-require-warning, and
    universal-coding-system-argument binds it to t.

    (2) If car of the arg DEFAULT-CODING-SYSTEM is t, it
    indicates that select-safe-coding-system should not include
    buffer-file-coding-system and most preferred coding system
    in a list of coding systems tried by default.
    Fwrite_region calls select-safe-coding-system in this way if
    coding-system-require-warning is non-nil.

    (3) Now a user can specify any coding system in
    select-safe-coding-system on his risk.  At least, this is
    necessary when an unsafe coding sysetm is specified by C-x
    RET c.

I didn't have time to read the code (sorry), but that sounds ok to me.

None

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <E18NH4s-0003g1-00@fencepost.gnu.org>, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>     Notes on the change:
>     (1) I made a new variable coding-system-require-warning, and
>     universal-coding-system-argument binds it to t.

>     (2) If car of the arg DEFAULT-CODING-SYSTEM is t, it
>     indicates that select-safe-coding-system should not include
>     buffer-file-coding-system and most preferred coding system
>     in a list of coding systems tried by default.
>     Fwrite_region calls select-safe-coding-system in this way if
>     coding-system-require-warning is non-nil.

>     (3) Now a user can specify any coding system in
>     select-safe-coding-system on his risk.  At least, this is
>     necessary when an unsafe coding sysetm is specified by C-x
>     RET c.

> I didn't have time to read the code (sorry), but that sounds ok to me.

I've just installed it in HEAD.

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org

Text mode menu wishlist

[Sacha Chua]

The EmacsWiki has a new node: http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TextMenu

---
We need a good replacement for tmm (f10) which does not confuse the
blind. A start is available as Lisp:textmenu.el. Read the
documentation for define-key and improve it.
---
Please define "confuse the blind." I need to know what people like or
don't like about tmm.el and textmenu.el. I have copious amounts of
free time and quite a great bit of interest in making this
work. Personal itches: changing keymaps and losing the ability to C-h
k.
--- (me)

I'd like to know people's thoughts on this. You can either add to the wiki,
post to emacs-devel or e-mail me directly, and I'll keep the wiki page updated. =)

-- 
Sacha Chua <sacha@free.net.ph> - 4 BS CS Ateneo geekette
interests: emacs, gnu/linux, wearables, teaching compsci

Re: Text mode menu wishlist

[Alex Schroeder]

Sacha Chua <sacha@free.net.ph> writes:

> I'd like to know people's thoughts on this. You can either add to
> the wiki, post to emacs-devel or e-mail me directly, and I'll keep
> the wiki page updated. =)

People like me would like a simple buffer where we can use up and down
and RET to select a menu entry.  This can be done in Lisp and works
for me.

Other people would like to see "real" menus in the console, but that
requires messing with the C code.  The basic stuff is already there in
the MSDOS port (which has "real" menus), all we need is to do is port
that to curses or something.  I think this would also work for the
blind which will probably use emacs -nw anyway.  But it would not be
enough for me if I wanted to use a buffer-based menu eventhough I am
running X.

Alex.

Re: Text mode menu wishlist

[Sacha Chua]

Alex Schroeder <alex@emacswiki.org> writes:

> People like me would like a simple buffer where we can use up and down
> and RET to select a menu entry.  This can be done in Lisp and works
> for me.

tmm does that, doesn't it? Or, well, it uses the history mechanism,
and you can pageup to get to the completion buffer...

> Other people would like to see "real" menus in the console, but that
> requires messing with the C code.  The basic stuff is already there in

I can start studying ncurses and the Emacs C code if people feel that this is
important enough. =) 

> blind which will probably use emacs -nw anyway.  But it would not be
> enough for me if I wanted to use a buffer-based menu eventhough I am
> running X.

What would an ideal buffer-based menu be for you?  Simple buffer, up
and down and ret, tab, mouse clicks, ability to go up to the parent
menu.. what else? =)

-- 
Sacha Chua <sacha@free.net.ph> - 4 BS CS Ateneo geekette
interests: emacs, gnu/linux, wearables, teaching compsci

Re: Text mode menu wishlist

[Thien-Thi Nguyen]

Sacha Chua <sacha@free.net.ph> writes:

   I can start studying ncurses and the Emacs C code if people feel that
   this is important enough. =)

perhaps you can kill two birds w/ one stone by prototyping using
guile-ncurses, q.v.

thi

Re: Text mode menu wishlist

[Miles Bader]

Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@glug.org> writes:
>    I can start studying ncurses and the Emacs C code if people feel that
>    this is important enough. =)
> 
> perhaps you can kill two birds w/ one stone by prototyping using
> guile-ncurses, q.v.

Um, emacs doesn't use curses.

You probably want to do this at the emacs glyph-matrix level.

-Miles
-- 
Suburbia: where they tear out the trees and then name streets after them.

(no subject)

[Thien-Thi Nguyen]

   From: Miles Bader <miles@lsi.nec.co.jp>
   Date: 10 Sep 2002 16:48:40 +0900

   Um, emacs doesn't use curses.

   You probably want to do this at the emacs glyph-matrix level.

sorry, i thought we were talking about text menus.
(however, note the weasle-word "prototyping". :-)

thi

Re: none

[Miles Bader]

Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@giblet.glug.org> writes:
>    Um, emacs doesn't use curses.
> 
>    You probably want to do this at the emacs glyph-matrix level.
> 
> sorry, i thought we were talking about text menus.

We were (or at least I was).

-Miles
-- 
`The suburb is an obsolete and contradictory form of human settlement'

Re: none

[Sacha Chua]

Miles Bader <miles@lsi.nec.co.jp> writes:

>>    Um, emacs doesn't use curses.
>>    You probably want to do this at the emacs glyph-matrix level.
>> sorry, i thought we were talking about text menus.
> We were (or at least I was).

I am definitely talking about text menus. =) I use emacspeak -nw often
(inside screen), and I rely on the keyboard a lot. Besides, how can I
use Emacs' funky mouse-friendly menus if I don't have graphical output
or an easy to use mouse? =)

Right now I'm studying textmenu and tmm, trying to figure out what
kind of a menu system I really want. I guess most people don't think
tmm is broken (it's actually quite nice), but I wonder if it can be
improved. I'll go into hermit mode now and experiment with ways to do
so. Thanks for the input, and feel free to send more suggestions! 

-- 
Sacha Chua <sacha@free.net.ph> - 4 BS CS Ateneo geekette
interests: emacs, gnu/linux, wearables, teaching compsci

Re: none

[Miles Bader]

On Tue, Sep 10, 2002 at 09:56:55PM +0800, Sacha Chua wrote:
> Right now I'm studying textmenu and tmm, trying to figure out what
> kind of a menu system I really want. I guess most people don't think
> tmm is broken (it's actually quite nice), but I wonder if it can be
> improved.

I think tmm is `broken' too, because:

(1) It operates differently from other menus so it's bound to confuse
    beginners.

(2) Even once I got used to it a bit, I still found it very awkward to use:

    (a) Moving between menus and sub-menus (it just replaces the contents of
    	the `menu buffer') is way too heavy-weight. A typical drop-down menu
    	implementation allows you to quickly scan through submenus seeing
    	what's there, while also preserving all the `parent context' for you
    	to see.

    (b) The arrangement of menu items in the buffer seems often hard to read
        quickly.

    (c) I find the way the user-input (in the minibuffer) works annoying.  I
	don't really like using completion when choosing from a small set of
	displayed items (because doing so requires me to stop and think about
	which key to type corresponds to which displayed), I'd rather just
	select directly from the list.  You can scroll through the list in
	the minibuffer using direction keys, but the `disconnected' nature of
	it makes this awkward; it would be _much_ better to just manipulate a
	cursor in the displayed list directly (you can do this sort of by
	switching to the menu-window, but (1) that's an irritating extra step
	you have to take, and (2) moving between menu-items once you're there
	is still slow and clumsy [e.g., the huge initial comment that has to
	be skipped, the double-column arrangement of items]

    [I imagine that if you're using emacs-speak, BTW, you might disagree about
    some of this]

(3) It's ugly as hell.   Bleah.

-Miles
-- 
Occam's razor split hairs so well, I bought the whole argument!

Re: none

[Sacha Chua]

Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:

>     (a) Moving between menus and sub-menus (it just replaces the contents of
>     	the `menu buffer') is way too heavy-weight. A typical drop-down menu
>     	implementation allows you to quickly scan through submenus seeing

Do you think it might be nice to have trees or outlines for menus,
like the way customize-browse does it? That seems like a fairly good
way of mimicking drop-down menus. Of course, there's something to be
said about native menus, but I think that native menus have been
discussed on this list before and there's probably a good reason why
we're still not using them.

> 	select directly from the list.  You can scroll through the list in
> 	the minibuffer using direction keys, but the `disconnected' nature of

tmm allows me to cycle through menu items in the minibuffer by
pressing the up and down arrow keys. This seems to make sense, and
it's actually quite usable with Emacspeak. I still don't like how
accelerators change if something gets added to the menu, and the fact
that there seems to be no easy way to go back to the previous menu,
but it's actually more usable than I thought.

It might be nice to see ido-like functionality in the menu, though. =)
That would be, like, fun!

-- 
Sacha Chua <sacha@free.net.ph> - 4 BS CS Ateneo geekette
interests: emacs, gnu/linux, wearables, teaching compsci

Re: none

[Richard Stallman]

    Of course, there's something to be
    said about native menus, but I think that native menus have been
    discussed on this list before and there's probably a good reason why
    we're still not using them.

If "native menus" means displaying something on the tty that looks
like a pull-down menu and letting the user move through it,
the reason we are not using them is that nobody has implemented them.
We would definitely like to switch to them, but it takes work,
so the question is who wants to do the work.