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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: "xenodasein@tutanota.de" <xenodasein@tutanota.de>
Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Propose to add setup-wizard.el to ELPA
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 18:47:02 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB5488AD62BA1C7DB89E7EE88EF3489@SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <MsP5IMz--B-2@tutanota.de>

> Custom is an unfinished system,

Like everything in Emacs.  That's the nature of
user-developed free software.

And yes, Custom has a lot of room for improvement.
It's too bad that it's essentially had only one
developer who put energy into it, and that ended
years ago.  Volunteers are surely welcome.

It likely doesn't help if good Emacs developers
don't, themselves, use it.

> it's code is not easy to understand,

That much is true, unfortunately.  The customize
code needs more love - definitely.

> and it does not integrate with the rest of Emacs
> well,

Not clear what you mean by that.  I can guess a
few ways in which there might be room for better
"integration", for users, but dunno what you had
in mind by that term (aside from your next point).

> it especially does not play well with configuring
> things from init.el file.

This is 100% (or maybe 99%) the fault of Emacs
letting Customize read and write to user init
files, and doing that as the default behavior,
no less.

The default behavior (maybe the only allowed
behavior) should be for it to use `custom-file'.
Emacs should really discourage (or prevent)
letting Customize fiddle with user init files.
Code you write and code Customize writes should
be kept separate.

I, and I think some others, have suggested this
more than once, in vain.  Aiming for that would
be a start, even if no volunteers to implement
that goal were to come forward at first.
  
> Until it is more polished, I would be hesitant
> to recommended it to newcomers, over doing a
> couple of setq's.

You should instead be hesitant to recommend
setq for user options.

https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/102/advantages-of-setting-variables-with-setq-instead-of-custom-el/106#106

  parent reply	other threads:[~2022-01-02 18:47 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 116+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-01-02  2:07 Propose to add setup-wizard.el to ELPA Yuan Fu
2022-01-02  2:37 ` Po Lu
2022-01-02  3:02   ` Yuan Fu
2022-01-02  3:22     ` Po Lu
2022-01-02  5:51       ` Yuan Fu
2022-01-02  6:30         ` Po Lu
2022-01-02  7:58           ` Yuan Fu
2022-01-02  8:07             ` Po Lu
2022-01-02  9:07               ` Yuan Fu
2022-01-02  9:22                 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-02  9:45                   ` Eduardo Ochs
2022-01-02  9:45                   ` Po Lu
2022-01-02 10:09                     ` Eduardo Ochs
2022-01-02 10:15                       ` Po Lu
2022-01-02 10:25                         ` Eduardo Ochs
2022-01-02 10:34                           ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-02 10:52                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-02 10:57                               ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-02 11:14                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-02 11:30                                   ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-02 11:38                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-02 12:01                                     ` Po Lu
2022-01-02 11:31                                   ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
     [not found]                             ` <CADs++6jtFBah1hhsuN6T_-kFyjc_pNmmVKA+16vOWa8OctOZLw@mail.gmail.com>
2022-01-02 11:02                               ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-02 11:17                             ` Po Lu
2022-01-02 11:36                               ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-02 12:03                                 ` Po Lu
2022-01-02 15:27                                 ` Stefan Kangas
     [not found]                               ` <MsPZqa9--3-2@tutanota.de-MsP_1xO----2>
2022-01-02 11:57                                 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-02 12:05                                   ` Po Lu
2022-01-02 15:27                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2022-01-02 15:37                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-02 16:43                                       ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-02 17:32                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2022-01-02 18:51                                         ` FW: [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-01-02 19:07                                           ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-02 21:29                                             ` Drew Adams
2022-01-02 22:14                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2022-01-03  6:42                                                 ` Sean Whitton
2022-01-03  7:02                                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2022-01-03  8:19                                                     ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-03  9:27                                                       ` Po Lu
2022-01-03  9:55                                                         ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-03 10:10                                                           ` Po Lu
2022-01-03 10:21                                                             ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-03 10:53                                                               ` Po Lu
2022-01-03 11:07                                                                 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-03 11:25                                                                   ` Po Lu
2022-01-03 11:32                                                                     ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-03 12:13                                                                       ` Po Lu
2022-01-03 12:20                                                                         ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-03 12:32                                                                           ` Po Lu
2022-01-03 12:44                                                                             ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-03 12:55                                                                               ` Po Lu
2022-01-03 13:24                                                                                 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-03 15:15                                                                                 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-03 16:04                                                       ` Drew Adams
2022-01-04 21:19                                                     ` Sean Whitton
2022-01-04 21:28                                                       ` Drew Adams
2022-01-04 22:38                                                         ` Sean Whitton
2022-01-04 22:51                                                           ` Drew Adams
2022-01-05  5:28                                                         ` tomas
2022-01-05  7:43                                                           ` Drew Adams
2022-01-05  8:13                                                             ` tomas
2022-01-07 10:34                                                     ` Jean Louis
2022-01-03 16:03                                                   ` Drew Adams
2022-01-03 16:05                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-01-04  1:50                                                     ` Yuan Fu
2022-01-04  2:53                                                       ` Po Lu
2022-01-04  4:13                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-01-04  4:30                                                         ` Yuan Fu
2022-01-04  6:10                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-01-04 15:04                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-04 21:25                                                         ` Sean Whitton
2022-01-05  0:58                                                           ` Po Lu
2022-01-05 15:35                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-06  6:32                                                             ` Sean Whitton
2022-01-03  0:42                                         ` Po Lu
2022-01-02 18:47                                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-01-02 11:58                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-01-07 10:09                     ` Jean Louis
2022-01-02 18:47                   ` Drew Adams [this message]
2022-01-02  9:41                 ` Po Lu
2022-01-02 17:18                   ` Yuan Fu
2022-01-02 18:47                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-01-07 10:02               ` Jean Louis
2022-01-07 10:50                 ` Po Lu
2022-01-07 12:11                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-09 22:54                   ` Yuan Fu
2022-01-10  4:15                   ` Jean Louis
2022-01-10 15:45                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-01-10 17:24                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-11  4:47                       ` Jean Louis
2022-01-11  4:51                     ` Richard Stallman
2022-01-02  7:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-02  8:07   ` Yuan Fu
2022-01-02 15:42     ` Stefan Kangas
2022-01-02 17:26       ` Yuan Fu
2022-01-02 17:36         ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
     [not found]         ` <MsQrOAf--J-2@tutanota.de-MsQrQR2----2>
2022-01-02 17:55           ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-01-02 18:50         ` Stefan Kangas
2022-01-02 21:14           ` Yuan Fu
2022-01-03  0:45             ` Po Lu
2022-01-03  0:59               ` Yuan Fu
2022-01-03  1:02             ` Stefan Kangas
2022-01-03  9:12             ` Joost Kremers
2022-01-03 12:49               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-03 13:00                 ` Po Lu
2022-01-03 19:30                 ` Joost Kremers
2022-01-02  8:07   ` Po Lu
2022-01-02 15:23     ` nanjunjie
2022-01-03  8:28       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-01-04 16:09         ` Nan JunJie
2022-01-04 19:45           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-01-02 12:02 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-01-07  9:58 ` Jean Louis

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