[PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

[PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

[Elis Hirwing]

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I would like to submit a package that I maintain to the NonGNU ELPA,
it's currently on MELPA, I've been maintaining it for years and using
it for years.

I find it to be fairly stable and usable, I mostly do releases to
address actual bugs with remote services or addition of new remote
services to interact with.

~ Elis

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From cda6d5dfd6536069793fee296c8f08100a63f869 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2021 14:00:21 +0100
Subject: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

---
 elpa-packages | 5 +++++
 1 file changed, 5 insertions(+)

diff --git a/elpa-packages b/elpa-packages
index 0de123b1dc..10d4d4fed8 100644
--- a/elpa-packages
+++ b/elpa-packages
@@ -295,6 +295,11 @@
  ("web-mode"		:url "https://github.com/fxbois/web-mode"
   :ignored-files ("issues" "tests" "run.sh"))
 
+ ("webpaste"		:url "https://github.com/etu/webpaste.el"
+  :ignored-files (".github" "tests" ".envrc" ".gitignore" "Cask" "Makefile" "shell.nix")
+  :readme "README.org"
+  :branch "main")
+
  ("with-editor"		:url "https://github.com/magit/with-editor"
   :ignored-files ("htmlxref.cnf" ".travis.yml" ".mailmap" "Makefile")
   :doc "with-editor.texi")
-- 
2.33.1


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Re: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

[Philip Kaludercic]

Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:

> I would like to submit a package that I maintain to the NonGNU ELPA,
> it's currently on MELPA, I've been maintaining it for years and using
> it for years.

Before someone else brings it up, have you considered adding the package
to GNU ELPA?  Or are there reasons you are attempting to add the package
to NonGNU ELPA first?

> I find it to be fairly stable and usable, I mostly do releases to
> address actual bugs with remote services or addition of new remote
> services to interact with.
>
> ~ Elis
>
> From cda6d5dfd6536069793fee296c8f08100a63f869 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se>
> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2021 14:00:21 +0100
> Subject: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package
>
> ---
>  elpa-packages | 5 +++++
>  1 file changed, 5 insertions(+)
>
> diff --git a/elpa-packages b/elpa-packages
> index 0de123b1dc..10d4d4fed8 100644
> --- a/elpa-packages
> +++ b/elpa-packages
> @@ -295,6 +295,11 @@
>   ("web-mode"		:url "https://github.com/fxbois/web-mode"
>    :ignored-files ("issues" "tests" "run.sh"))
>  
> + ("webpaste"		:url "https://github.com/etu/webpaste.el"
> +  :ignored-files (".github" "tests" ".envrc" ".gitignore" "Cask" "Makefile" "shell.nix")

Just in case you haven't heard of it, you can also add a ".elpaignore"
file to Git, and that will be used to exclude files.  If something about
your project structure were to change, it might be easier to adapt.

> +  :readme "README.org"

The file "README.org" is already in the default list of files that the
ELPA build system checks if they exist.  So it shouldn't be necessary.

> +  :branch "main")

This also shouldn't be necessary, as long as "main" is the default
branch.

> +
>   ("with-editor"		:url "https://github.com/magit/with-editor"
>    :ignored-files ("htmlxref.cnf" ".travis.yml" ".mailmap" "Makefile")
>    :doc "with-editor.texi")

-- 
	Philip Kaludercic

Re: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

[Elis Hirwing]

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On Thu, 2021-12-02 at 16:05 +0000, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
> Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:
> 
> > I would like to submit a package that I maintain to the NonGNU
> > ELPA,
> > it's currently on MELPA, I've been maintaining it for years and
> > using
> > it for years.
> 
> Before someone else brings it up, have you considered adding the
> package
> to GNU ELPA?  Or are there reasons you are attempting to add the
> package
> to NonGNU ELPA first?

Partly because I haven't signed the CLA with GNU and that I have
contributors which I don't know if they have signed the CLA or not, so
I just found it easier that way.

> > I find it to be fairly stable and usable, I mostly do releases to
> > address actual bugs with remote services or addition of new remote
> > services to interact with.
> > 
> > ~ Elis
> > 
> > From cda6d5dfd6536069793fee296c8f08100a63f869 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00
> > 2001
> > From: Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se>
> > Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2021 14:00:21 +0100
> > Subject: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package
> > 
> > ---
> >  elpa-packages | 5 +++++
> >  1 file changed, 5 insertions(+)
> > 
> > diff --git a/elpa-packages b/elpa-packages
> > index 0de123b1dc..10d4d4fed8 100644
> > --- a/elpa-packages
> > +++ b/elpa-packages
> > @@ -295,6 +295,11 @@
> >   ("web-mode"           :url "https://github.com/fxbois/web-mode"
> >    :ignored-files ("issues" "tests" "run.sh"))
> >  
> > + ("webpaste"           :url "https://github.com/etu/webpaste.el"
> > +  :ignored-files (".github" "tests" ".envrc" ".gitignore" "Cask"
> > "Makefile" "shell.nix")
> 
> Just in case you haven't heard of it, you can also add a
> ".elpaignore"
> file to Git, and that will be used to exclude files.  If something
> about
> your project structure were to change, it might be easier to adapt.

This is news to me, I'll do that and supply a new patch. Also
implementing the following suggestions below.

> > +  :readme "README.org"
> 
> The file "README.org" is already in the default list of files that
> the
> ELPA build system checks if they exist.  So it shouldn't be
> necessary.
> 
> > +  :branch "main")
> 
> This also shouldn't be necessary, as long as "main" is the default
> branch.
> 
> > +
> >   ("with-editor"                :url
> > "https://github.com/magit/with-editor"
> >    :ignored-files ("htmlxref.cnf" ".travis.yml" ".mailmap"
> > "Makefile")
> >    :doc "with-editor.texi")
> 


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From 191f99afd27e5cd0f05b30bd2854b4ee564c6ddd Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2021 22:00:49 +0100
Subject: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

---
 elpa-packages | 2 ++
 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+)

diff --git a/elpa-packages b/elpa-packages
index 0de123b1dc..54a64dc9d8 100644
--- a/elpa-packages
+++ b/elpa-packages
@@ -295,6 +295,8 @@
  ("web-mode"		:url "https://github.com/fxbois/web-mode"
   :ignored-files ("issues" "tests" "run.sh"))
 
+ ("webpaste"		:url "https://github.com/etu/webpaste.el")
+
  ("with-editor"		:url "https://github.com/magit/with-editor"
   :ignored-files ("htmlxref.cnf" ".travis.yml" ".mailmap" "Makefile")
   :doc "with-editor.texi")
-- 
2.33.1


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Re: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

[Philip Kaludercic]

Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:

> On Thu, 2021-12-02 at 16:05 +0000, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
>> Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:
>> 
>> > I would like to submit a package that I maintain to the NonGNU
>> > ELPA,
>> > it's currently on MELPA, I've been maintaining it for years and
>> > using
>> > it for years.
>> 
>> Before someone else brings it up, have you considered adding the
>> package
>> to GNU ELPA?  Or are there reasons you are attempting to add the
>> package
>> to NonGNU ELPA first?
>
> Partly because I haven't signed the CLA with GNU and that I have
> contributors which I don't know if they have signed the CLA or not, so
> I just found it easier that way.

Looking at the contributor list, I certainly recognise more than a few
names that have signed the CA and I'd expect to agree when asked if they
would want to add the package to ELPA.  It is up to you if you would
want to ask your contributors or not.

If you are sure that ELPA is not the right place, then adding the
package to NonGNU ELPA shouldn't be an issue, and would certainly be a
worthwhile addition.

-- 
	Philip Kaludercic

Re: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

[Elis Hirwing]

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On Thu, 2021-12-02 at 23:15 +0000, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
> Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:
> 
> > On Thu, 2021-12-02 at 16:05 +0000, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
> > > Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:
> > > 
> > > > I would like to submit a package that I maintain to the NonGNU
> > > > ELPA,
> > > > it's currently on MELPA, I've been maintaining it for years and
> > > > using
> > > > it for years.
> > > 
> > > Before someone else brings it up, have you considered adding the
> > > package
> > > to GNU ELPA?  Or are there reasons you are attempting to add the
> > > package
> > > to NonGNU ELPA first?
> > 
> > Partly because I haven't signed the CLA with GNU and that I have
> > contributors which I don't know if they have signed the CLA or not,
> > so
> > I just found it easier that way.
> 
> Looking at the contributor list, I certainly recognise more than a
> few
> names that have signed the CA and I'd expect to agree when asked if
> they
> would want to add the package to ELPA.  It is up to you if you would
> want to ask your contributors or not.
> 
> If you are sure that ELPA is not the right place, then adding the
> package to NonGNU ELPA shouldn't be an issue, and would certainly be
> a
> worthwhile addition.

I've now considered this and would still prefer the NonGNU ELPA.

Partly due to the extra work to check for CLA's for me from future
contributors, then also that it may scare of future contributors that
(like me) haven't done the necessary paperwork.

~ Elis

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Re: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

[Po Lu]

Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:

> On Thu, 2021-12-02 at 23:15 +0000, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
>> Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:
>> 
>> > On Thu, 2021-12-02 at 16:05 +0000, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
>> > > Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:
>> > > 
>> > > > I would like to submit a package that I maintain to the NonGNU
>> > > > ELPA,
>> > > > it's currently on MELPA, I've been maintaining it for years and
>> > > > using
>> > > > it for years.
>> > > 
>> > > Before someone else brings it up, have you considered adding the
>> > > package
>> > > to GNU ELPA?  Or are there reasons you are attempting to add the
>> > > package
>> > > to NonGNU ELPA first?
>> > 
>> > Partly because I haven't signed the CLA with GNU and that I have
>> > contributors which I don't know if they have signed the CLA or not,
>> > so
>> > I just found it easier that way.
>> 
>> Looking at the contributor list, I certainly recognise more than a
>> few
>> names that have signed the CA and I'd expect to agree when asked if
>> they
>> would want to add the package to ELPA.  It is up to you if you would
>> want to ask your contributors or not.
>> 
>> If you are sure that ELPA is not the right place, then adding the
>> package to NonGNU ELPA shouldn't be an issue, and would certainly be
>> a
>> worthwhile addition.
>
> I've now considered this and would still prefer the NonGNU ELPA.
>
> Partly due to the extra work to check for CLA's for me from future
> contributors, then also that it may scare of future contributors that
> (like me) haven't done the necessary paperwork.
>
> ~ Elis

Could you please explain what "webpaste" services are?  Could they be
SaaSS by any chance?

Is the software run by these services free software, and can the user
run them locally?

Thanks.

Re: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

[Elis Hirwing]

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On Fri, 2021-12-03 at 19:24 +0800, Po Lu wrote:
> Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:
> 
> > On Thu, 2021-12-02 at 23:15 +0000, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
> > > Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:
> > > 
> > > > On Thu, 2021-12-02 at 16:05 +0000, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
> > > > > Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > I would like to submit a package that I maintain to the
> > > > > > NonGNU
> > > > > > ELPA,
> > > > > > it's currently on MELPA, I've been maintaining it for years
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > using
> > > > > > it for years.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Before someone else brings it up, have you considered adding
> > > > > the
> > > > > package
> > > > > to GNU ELPA?  Or are there reasons you are attempting to add
> > > > > the
> > > > > package
> > > > > to NonGNU ELPA first?
> > > > 
> > > > Partly because I haven't signed the CLA with GNU and that I have
> > > > contributors which I don't know if they have signed the CLA or
> > > > not,
> > > > so
> > > > I just found it easier that way.
> > > 
> > > Looking at the contributor list, I certainly recognise more than a
> > > few
> > > names that have signed the CA and I'd expect to agree when asked if
> > > they
> > > would want to add the package to ELPA.  It is up to you if you
> > > would
> > > want to ask your contributors or not.
> > > 
> > > If you are sure that ELPA is not the right place, then adding the
> > > package to NonGNU ELPA shouldn't be an issue, and would certainly
> > > be
> > > a
> > > worthwhile addition.
> > 
> > I've now considered this and would still prefer the NonGNU ELPA.
> > 
> > Partly due to the extra work to check for CLA's for me from future
> > contributors, then also that it may scare of future contributors that
> > (like me) haven't done the necessary paperwork.
> > 
> > ~ Elis
> 
> Could you please explain what "webpaste" services are?  Could they be
> SaaSS by any chance?

Think pastebin-like services (not actually supporting pastebin<dot>com
though). Yes they are in general SaaSS since the purpose of the mode is
to "share parts of or whole buffers" by uploading it somewhere and get
a link that can be shared. 

However, I also make it fairly easy to define your own services to use
and override which ones are used. So if you only want to use for own
hosted solution you can do so.

> Is the software run by these services free software, and can the user
> run them locally.

Some of them are for sure non-free software, but some of them are free
or open source software, one of the free solutions that can be hosted
by the user is bpa.st which uses the software pinnwand which is MIT
licensed: https://github.com/supakeen/pinnwand

There's helper functions specifically for pinnwand to make it easy to
create provider entries that uses pinnwand hosted in other places.

~ Elis

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Re: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

[Stefan Kangas]

Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:

> Think pastebin-like services (not actually supporting pastebin<dot>com
> though). Yes they are in general SaaSS since the purpose of the mode is
> to "share parts of or whole buffers" by uploading it somewhere and get
> a link that can be shared.

Why are they SaaSS?  The definition I would use is:

    Service as a Software Substitute (SaaSS) means using a service as a
    substitute for running your copy of a program.  Concretely, it means
    that someone sets up a network server that does certain computing
    activities — for instance, modifying a photo, translating text into
    another language, etc. — then invites users to let that server do
    their own computing for them.  As a user of the server, you would
    send your data to the server, which does that computing activity on
    the data thus provided, then sends the results back to you or else
    acts directly on your behalf.

    https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html

In particular, note that later on that page, it says:

    The original idea of web servers wasn't to do computing for you, it
    was to publish information for you to access.  Even today this is
    what most web sites do, and it doesn't pose the SaaSS problem,
    because accessing someone's published information isn't doing your
    own computing.  Neither is use of a blog site to publish your own
    works, or using a microblogging service such as Twitter or
    StatusNet.

Re: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

[Elis Hirwing]

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On Fri, 2021-12-03 at 04:01 -0800, Stefan Kangas wrote:
> Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:
> 
> > Think pastebin-like services (not actually supporting
> > pastebin<dot>com
> > though). Yes they are in general SaaSS since the purpose of the
> > mode is
> > to "share parts of or whole buffers" by uploading it somewhere and
> > get
> > a link that can be shared.
> 
> Why are they SaaSS?  The definition I would use is:

Oh, I'm sorry, I misread it as "Software as a Service", which then
would be SaaS... :-)

Some of them add things like syntax highliting to the result, but other
than that they shouldn't be SaaSS.

~ Elis

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Re: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

Just to correct an important background point.
The GNU Project does not use a "contributor license agreement" (CLA).

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

[Philip Kaludercic]

Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:

> Could you please explain what "webpaste" services are?  Could they be
> SaaSS by any chance?
>
> Is the software run by these services free software, and can the user
> run them locally?

The "service" of a pastebin site is to provide a method of uploading and
hosting files, often program snippets or logs.  This can not be replaced
by local software, unless the user provides the same service.

-- 
	Philip Kaludercic

Re: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

[Philip Kaludercic]

Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:

> I've now considered this and would still prefer the NonGNU ELPA.

Ok, I'll add the package specification as soon as I get my Savannah
access working again.  Thank you for your contribution!

-- 
	Philip Kaludercic

Re: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (webpaste): New package

[Stefan Kangas]

Elis Hirwing <elis@hirwing.se> writes:

> Oh, I'm sorry, I misread it as "Software as a Service", which then
> would be SaaS... :-)

The FSF has its own terminology here, to make things more "clear".
Let's leave it unsaid if they accomplish that goal effectively or not;
the point is that what the rest of the world calls "SaaS", the FSF calls
"SaaSS" ("Software as a Software Substitute").

IOW, we are talking about the same thing here, and AFAIU typical
webpaste services are not SaaS/SaaSS according to the FSF definition.